09-01-2004 15:04									#1
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Republic!

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Holding the turn ...

Silks hooked up, plus 10% on the lux slider leaves HBR in 5 turns, +4gpt.

Galley in Burundy.

Izz can do 10spt (Pyramids in 40, anyone j/k ) but only needs 1 food this turn to grow to six - could grab another worker this turn.

CoS can get 5spt with 11 to go on a lib - it could disband its own reg warrior or a conscript from Izz to take a turn of the lib (and gain a gpt).

Swindon can get 7spt if it uses Sil-7, with 7 shields in the bag for our fith chariot in two turns.

Silesia would then get 6spt, with an empty box, so disbanding other conscript from Izz would get us a chariot in 3 turns.

That would be our six chariots done - in 3 turns. Perhaps turn up the science on the last turn to take a turn off HBR.

All this would leave Ciao a little short - but it can start the 4th and final spearman, and as Swindon and Silesia switch to warriors they'll only need 5spt. Swindon could probably get 10spt soon though, once the mine at Sil-1 is complete.

I'm inclined to disband the reg warrs near Corinth into Corinth and punch out new vets. The reg from Silesia could join the scout on the first galley.

I don't think Python have their tech pedal on the floor for Construction - au contraire, they are planning on 20 warrior upgrades and a rushed barracks, so they'll surely be saving cash from now.

For us, max cash (with 10% lux) gives 34 gpt. 10 turns of that, plus existing reserves would see a kitty af around 480-500g. Enough to upgrade 8 swords and 6 chariots (total 440g) with a bit left to rush the Plymouth galley.

This fund-raising, plus 5 turns of HBR would take about 15 turns - taking us to near the proposed launch of 'Operation Humanist'.

	09-01-2004 15:11									#2
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Once the warriors are done, I expect we'd have the option of at least 2 more swords - or horses in Swindon / Silesia.

There are the cats too - Izz could punch a couple out in 4 turns if needed.

	09-01-2004 17:04									#3
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'Operation Humanist'? Didn't we call it 'Operation Jungle Storm"?

	09-01-2004 17:12									#4
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OJS is fine by me. At least we didn't call it 'Spanking the Monkey'

	09-01-2004 17:23									#5
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We have our southern scout to consider. If galley-1 came round Monkey-Peninsula towards the bit of land we saw SW of Monkey, perhaps the first scout could get dropped off and the other picked up. Erm ... this doesn't sound very convincing - the alternative is either a provocation or a suicide run into unexplored monkey territory - or sit down there and hope to tie up an NM? - no, a warrior would be enough.

Excuse the rambling - it's one of those days.

	09-01-2004 18:26									#6
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Thanks for holding the turn. I won't be home for 9-10 hours, sorry, but I really wanna look at it before we play & send.

Thanks for laying out the main issues, though, so I can start thinking about 'em before I get home

quote: Izz can do 10spt (Pyramids in 40, anyone j/k ) but only needs 1 food this turn to grow to six - could grab another worker this turn.

10spt = 3 turns for a settler. If we punch out a worker, we're at size 5, w/10f in the bank, with 3 turns for a settler. Hmm:

10f, 0s
15f, 10s
Size6, 20s (prolly 21 actually, but whatever)
15f, settler complete, size 4.

With 10 shields/turn the damn thing goes too fast. So here's what I'm thinking we could do:

1) To the extent that Izz can give up tiles to other cities to boost their production, we do it (so long as we can still do 4-turn settlers) for now;

or

T82: 19f, 0s. Build settler.
T83: Size6, 10-11s.
T84: 15f, 20-21s.
T85: Size7, settler complete, size5. Order catapult
T86: 15f, 10s.
T87: Size 6, catapult complete. Order worker.
T88: 15f, worker complete, size5. Order settler.

quote: CoS can get 5spt with 11 to go on a lib - it could disband its own reg warrior or a conscript from Izz to take a turn of the lib (and gain a gpt).

Oh hell yes. 1 conscript to CoS, pronto.

quote: Silesia would then get 6spt, with an empty box, so disbanding other conscript from Izz would get us a chariot in 3 turns.

Again, let's do it. If we need a galley scout, we can use a regular warrior.

I think we should try for HBR in 4, and start pumping out vet warriors. I'd like to bring 10 swordsmen if possible. 8 for the main party, and 2 on a galley. Then again, if the timing works like I think it does (10 turns until iron/horses swap, so 12-15 turns until actual war), perhaps we could squeeze out a couple more chariots, either leaving HBR at 5 turns, or actually slowing to 6, to take in more money for upgrades.

So the main attack force would look like this: 8sw, 6h, 4sp, and whatever cats we end up building (if any).

Hmm, we may wanna try and squeeze out another spear or two.

Regarding the southern scout, let's get him in position for a move-and-pillage 1 tile before death suicide move. That means he saunters towards the southern border of Monkeyland (slowly, mind you, since the war probably won't start for ~15 turns).

-Arrian

	09-01-2004 18:28									#7
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Oh:

WE MUST REMEMBER TO SEND OUR WORLD MAP ACCEPTED TO PYTHON.

That's as much for me as anyone else.

-Arrian

	09-01-2004 18:36									#8
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Hmm, library in 2 turns in CoS. I wonder what impact that might have on our HBR research. Something to ponder.

We're probably going to put out our next settler on T85 or T87, depending on what we decide to do with Izz.

If we go with the settler-catapult-worker queue, the next settler after T85's comes out on T91 (9 turns from now).

Transit time from Izz to the probably southern fort town site would be? BRB, looking at map. EDIT: ok, well, it depends on how much more road Python builds, but it looks like approximately 7 turns transit time to get to one of those hills south of the jungle (I wonder, will Monkey try to block the settler team?). So if we use a settler built 3 turns from now, it's there ~10 turns from now (too early). If we use the second one, it's there on T98, 16 turns from now (too late?).

I think this is something to consult SR about, because we need to get this timing right.

-Arrian

	09-01-2004 19:08									#9
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quote: I don't think Python have their tech pedal on the floor for Construction - au contraire, they are planning on 20 warrior upgrades and a rushed barracks, so they'll surely be saving cash from now. For us, max cash (with 10% lux) gives 34 gpt.

Yes, Python is doing Construction at 40 turn pace. They have already started, however.

34gpt... not all that great. We will be disbanding 2 conscript warriors and perhaps 2 or 3 regular warriors. That's the good news. The bad news is that we will also be building a bunch more units (around 15, so if you subtract 5 disbands, that leaves 10 extra). Do we still have our northern scout? If so, I think he's toast. That's 6 disbands...

Also, with one jungle city using 1 scientist, the other should probably use 1 taxman. Every penny counts.

Hey, did we ever switch Burundy to a galley?

-Arrian

	09-01-2004 19:41									#10
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Yes, the galley is now sitting in Burundy

If we're gonna lunch the northern scout - should we consider putting the southern one on the galley? If we're on Polytheism and found a hut we might get construction. Or what if there was land and a hut nearby Burundy?

Looking at the save, we have a warrior on the northernmost hill at Corinth-2222. A settler leaving Izz should reach there in six turns as the road currently stands, and four turns if the road was complete:

1. Izz to Silesia-7
2. to Sw-21
3. to Corinth-32
4. if road, then to Cor-2222 hill, else to Cor-223
5. to Cor-2223
6. to Cor-2222

	09-01-2004 19:56									#11
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If we want a an actual scout (as opposed to a regular warrior) on the galley, then I would say use the northern one. Otherwise the galley must sail all the way down south, pick up the scout, and then find something to do with him.

I've been crunching some numbers, by the way, and honestly I don't think it looks good for the 2nd galley.

We should fortify that warrior, btw, that has a spot staked out on the hills down south.

All spearmen should move towards Corinth. All chariots should be sent to Swindon.

1 warrior to be disbanded in CoS (actually, I think there is a regular already there, so that can be done straightaway). 1 warrior to be disbanded in Silesia (conscript from Izz?). Can Ciao or Coventry be helped by any warrior disbands? If the answer is "not really" then all other warrior disbands should probably go to Plymouth so that rushing a galley will be cheaper.

Thanks for the breakdown of settler moves... 6 turns is about what I figured (I might have been thinking about going 1 tile further south, which would explain the difference between our estimates)... we just need to hear from SR regarding timing so we can decide which settler (and indeed which build queue) to use.

If we do build a settler prior to the one used on the fort town, I guess it could be slated for the forest-near-cow, and we could ask that Python build us a west coast city?

-Arrian

	09-01-2004 19:59									#12
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There are at least a couple of Barb galleys down south, and even without interruption or exploration it's about 18 turns to the blob of land 6 tiles SW of Chimpanzee.

If it has to get through two barb galleys, how great a shape will it be in to deal with monkey?

What if we put a settler on it to build on the distant land and heal the boat - if it makes it. And in five turns time - if the galley heads directly round the coast, we rush the 2nd galley in Plymouth and send the pair round together for protection.

Meanwhile, we immediately start a third galley in Burundy (complete in 7-8 turns with growth and mine) to take the sword pair. Then we'll have some serious navy and repair base down there. So, first settler on the boat, second settler to the fort, perhaps? A second settler will find the road goes further and might get there in five turns from leaving Izz.

There's potentially masses of food in Izz : +8 with 5spt is possible so there may be options to tweak performance with MM.

	09-01-2004 20:01									#13
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er crosspost : you won't like the idea above then

	09-01-2004 20:11									#14
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It all depends on how seriously we want to stop Monkey escaping, which in turn depends on how dangerous it would be for them to escape - in terms of possible WW and long term paypack.

They'll have had MM a while when we strike, and will probaby be building a galley to explore the overseas land. They just have to make a settler somewhere and they're away.

	09-01-2004 20:13									#15
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Barb galleys vs. Human galleys on this level of play = human promotions, most of the time.

Where are those evil barb galleys exactly? Anyway we can draw them north towards Plymouth (while building a galley in P at 1spt, preparing to rush)? Here's a thought:

beeline south with our new galley, watching with our southern scout if we can, the reaction of the barb galleys. Hopefully the shoot north to intercept. We get partway down there, and slowly retreat back toward Plymouth. Once the barb galleys get close, we rush the second galley and sally forth together to kill the barbs (though I cannot prove this, it has always been my experience that it's better to defend vs. barb galleys than attack them, but whichever). Then we heal up any damage and proceed southward with troops on board.

Also, if we do build a settler prior to the settler slated for the southern fort town, we can use it on a town on the east coast south of Plymouth instead of on the forest west of Swindon (leaving that to Python to build for us). Such a city would be a better naval base than Plymouth.

-Arrian

	09-01-2004 20:17									#16
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Whaddya think the odds are that 4 swordsmen landed from galleys might be able to pounce on Primate Central and take it? If, say, Monkey were in anarchy at the time, so they could not produce any last-minute reinforcements?

-Arrian

	09-01-2004 20:35									#17
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There are barb galleys by cubmaster on the icy south tip, about 8 turns from Plmouth,.

I like the though of four Swordies jumping off boats onto the hill by Pri-Cent. If roaded (are we gonna swap maps with Monkey?), Baboon to the south and Orangutan to the north could reinforce - if they happen to have NM's lying around there. If they see our galleys they might keep it better defended - but if it does cause a rush of units into Pri-Cent, that'll help the main advance.

	09-01-2004 20:37									#18
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Coaxing up the Barb galleys and sharpening ours on them sounds a good idea. I agree about the defending/fortifying v barb galleys. I usually find it works well - that extra 25%.

	09-01-2004 20:47									#19
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Ciao might benefit from a disband - it's at 3spt, and might lose the next shield (grows next turn) to corruption, so a warrior-disband could shave a turn of the spear.

Coventry is at 31/80, at 4spt, growth in 5 turns, courthouse in 13 turns. 49 shields remaining, 12 * 4 = 48 so if it loses its next shield it gains a turn too.

	09-01-2004 21:09									#20
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Ok, I'd say the 2nd conscript probably goes to Ciao for disband, then.

Regular in CoS. Conscript in Ciao. Conscript in Silesia. Other regulars in Plymouth. Sound like a plan?

How many shields are galleys, btw?

-Arrian

	09-01-2004 21:11									#21
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So, Cos, Ciao & Silesia can disband their warrs, while Izz sends its conscipts to Cov and Plymouth. Southern jungle warrior will fortify, and two remaining head towarsd Plymouth.

	09-01-2004 21:12									#22
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duplicate AND crosspost - amazing.

	09-01-2004 21:16									#23
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galleys are 30 shields. In 6 turns time it can have 12 plus six from the three disbands = 18. Leaves 12 * 4 = 48g to rush, or less if we leave it a couple more turns.

	09-01-2004 21:30									#24
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Oh, ok, right. That looks good. For some reason I thought galleys were like 50 shields.

I think we can afford that 2nd one, then. [Palpatine]Good, goood![/Palpatine]

For a bit there I thought we were going to have to scale it down a bit, being English and all.

-Arrian

p.s. Northern scout too? Or keep him?

	09-01-2004 21:33									#25
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So, let's see if we can swing this:

6 chariots -> horse = 120g
10 warriors -> sword = 400g
1 rushed galley = 48g

That's ~570 gold. It's a bit of a strain, but doable, I feel.

Ok, now I'm thinking that CoS should switch to a marketplace, and do the library second.

It's 11 shields short of a library, at 5spt, right? So that's 69 shields it has. Warrior disband = 71. 6 turns until a market... so about when we're going full tax after HBR. Makes sense, no?

And what about that forest chop... might that assist?

-Arrian

	09-01-2004 21:35									#26
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Oh - speaking of that forest chop, there is a risk of it allocating to Ciao, I think. In order to prevent that, Ciao should probably be switched to "palace" for the turn the forest chop is due to complete (or is it the turn prior, due to PBEM? Weird, must think about that a bit) if possible.

-Arrian

	09-01-2004 21:44									#27
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We could build an explorer galley in Burundy (complete in 7-8 turns with growth and mine) and put him on that.

	09-01-2004 21:53									#28
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Crosspost coming fast 'n furious, eh? Sorry I'm so rambly today. I'm excited - no more anarchy, war soon, so much to do!!

-Arrian

	09-01-2004 21:54									#29
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Yes, as we're hitting the cash pedal soon lets build a marketplace in CoS.

There's a bit of wf shuffling to set all the cities up, but at 5spt, disbanding the CoS warrior gives us mkt in six turns, down from seven, so that's good too. These two shield disbands are taking turns off builds everywhere!

	09-01-2004 21:57									#30
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Ramble on, as Led Zep famously sung - it's all good. I'm excited too. We've waited about 27 turns for this moment!