15-01-2004 00:02									#31
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quote: Originally posted by rah Yeah, in 1x I would build next to them on the river. And yes, a SSC becomes a target that used a lot of resources to build. But my cap usually becomes a Big Science city but would never qualify for anthing resembling any of the SSCs shown here.

From what you have related before about MP, it would appear to be extremely unlikely for one player to be able to build all the WOW's for a classic SSC. Too much competition. Learning how to play under those circumstances is one of the features of playing MP, I think.

Playing SP and building big honking cities is somewhat like building things with Lego blocks. If you like that sort of thing you really love the results; if not, you quickly get bored. Different strokes....

Monk

	15-01-2004 00:10									#32
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oops double post

Monk

	15-01-2004 18:56									#33
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Yeah, but people play a lot of different strats. There's always the race for happy wonders. And someone is always thinking about ruling the seas. And in MP it's always a good idea to at least consider the war related ones, so it's not that unlikely that someone can at least sneak in col and the observatory. If you try for newts straight from there, it is unlikely that anyone else will beat you to it. But then you had better be protecting it. Especially if it's near the ocean.

You are right, that is part of the lure of the game. You're not going to get your favorite wonders every game. It does force you to use different strats depending on how each hut is opened and each wonder is built, with a keen eye on your neighbor. You may have a war monger as a neighbor or a perfectionist. But that pefectionist might have been forced out of his game plan and is busy building vet elephants while you're thinking he's building markets and caravans like he usually does. And the good players do vary there strats so they aren't predictable like the AI.

	15-01-2004 23:28									#34
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rah, you are a great salesman!!

This is one of your better offerings and it makes me hunger to be able to play against human competition. Maybe someday we can play.

Monk

	15-01-2004 23:44									#35
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quote: Originally posted by duke o' york But you also have two engineers supported by that city, which would have been another two Elvii, and even more beakers!

Interesting point about the engineers. Not something I had thought of- iirc, they were serving several purposes
- planting trees along the river for enough shields to build the ship easily
- cleaning up pollution (As I believe Elephant pointed out once at CFC, I had neglected to build a Mass Transit)
- Improving the terrain around my trading partner city (although this task was probably done by that point in the game.)

Actually, note that the city was already starving as I was in the process of foresting the city to build the ship. Disbanding the engineers would have slowed the starvation, but not helped in that immediate situation.

Certainly could have improved the city more. Looking at it now, I realize that with refrig, I could have changed the river-pheasants to buffalo and gotten one more shield from each with the same food (eliminating the need for one of the forests on the river- giving more total food)

	16-01-2004 02:18									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Bloody Monk rah, you are a great salesman!! This is one of your better offerings and it makes me hunger to be able to play against human competition. Maybe someday we can play. Monk

I would be a pleasure. It would be nice if circumstances would make it possible.
My passion for MP shouldn't be seen as a slight for SP or any of the Challanges, since I've done them and enjoyed them and respect them. But, I'm now a junkie for human competition. And It does kind of bias my thinking sometimes.

Besides, it's kind of silly to boast to your machine when you ruthlessly eliminate them.

	16-01-2004 02:25									#37
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quote: Originally posted by rah Besides, it's kind of silly to boast to your machine when you ruthlessly eliminate them.

Or land on AC while they are still in the Dark Ages and haven't even discovered AC yet. Silly it may be; but it is still satisfying.

Monk

	16-01-2004 04:11									#38
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quote: Originally posted by duke o' york But you also have two engineers supported by that city, which would have been another two Elvii, and even more beakers!

Late game you need two Engineers on standby: they can clean up a Skull in the same turn, if you don't have them working on something else. A Skulll on a Trade Special can kill a one-turn tech. I like to go shopping and buy a couple NONEs somewhere, but that has cost me significant gold sometimes.

	16-01-2004 14:37									#39
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I know that the engineers are useful, if not vital, to the game, but was just thinking that if anyone set out to build the most scientific(k)est, researchingest city ever, then the engineers could be borrowed from other cities, and the population swelled further.

	16-01-2004 15:16									#40
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Hm...

Figured I'd pop into the Civ 2 General/Help forum... Didn't expect to find a dogfight between two members who both clearly loves Civ 2...

Reminded me of the old days when Apolyton was much more, shall we say, aggressive with plenty of "know-it-all" posters (yours truly was no better than the rest) and you could be flamed for writing "settler" if you meant "engineer" and vice versa... Glad it's all engineered!

At the risk of starting a new fight, I have to take issue with the following passage:

quote: Originally posted by rah Geeze Bloody Monk, chill. Yes I have heard of early launch (five or so years ago, I participated and held the record for a few days), and I was the second player to win at OCC.

I don't like blowing my own horn, but I think I was second to win an OCC.

http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum3/H...html?date=16:27

If this is wrong, I'll engineer for third place. After all, we can't tell one of you apart from the other...

Carolus

	16-01-2004 18:25									#41
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Second third, picky picky picky, yes but upon further review you are correct. (at diety level) Never trust an old man's memory. But I did hold the record for at least a day. Thanks for posting the link, brought back some fond memories.

Not quite a dogfight, just a simple misunderstanding which resolved quite quickly.

	16-01-2004 21:37									#42
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Heja Sverige

	16-01-2004 21:49									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Carolus Rex Hm... Figured I'd pop into the Civ 2 General/Help forum... Didn't expect to find a dogfight between two members who both clearly loves Civ 2... Carolus

Hm...I think that calling what we had "a dogfight" could properly be called overkill.

Monk

	16-01-2004 23:57									#44
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Xcccelent.

	18-01-2004 00:43									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Bloody Monk You ARE superior; now get over your bad self and act like a Mod.

It's good that you get along now, cuz when I saw that... are u sure you wanted him to act like a mod?

	18-01-2004 01:19									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Theben It's good that you get along now, cuz when I saw that... are u sure you wanted him to act like a mod?

Parsing mode... The first part is a compliment, the second is a phrase connoting respect, and the last makes perfect sense in context.

Sorry if anyone was unduly disturbed. All this parsing has killed my mood.

Monk

	19-01-2004 14:47									#47
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quote: Originally posted by rah Second third, picky picky picky, yes but upon further review you are correct. (at diety level)

Of course we're talking deity level (yes picky, picky, picky! ).

quote: Originally posted by rah Never trust an old man's memory. But I did hold the record for at least a day. Thanks for posting the link, brought back some fond memories.

I didn't recall it myself, but then the thread in question popped up in a recent thread at the A/C forum. At first it seemed that only page one of the OCC thread was readable, but Paul found a way to link to pages 2 and 3:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...45&pagenumber=3

Carolus