11-01-2004 00:59									#1
	Civ2 Demo Game #4 Poll Results and Further Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

The Civ 2 Demo Game #4 setting poll is now closed. The results (as I best interpret them) are as follows:

1. One city on a 5 square island at least 7 squares from the nearest land.
2. A second city cannot be established until 1040 AD.
3. There will be no Ironclads or Diplomats built.
4. Trade (Caravans) are allowed.
5. Spies are allowed.
6. We must maintain a “spotless” reputation.

From earlier discussions, I suggest the following:

Despotism

1. In Despotism, we have one (initially-elected) leader who will play the game as usual in short (generally 5-8 turn segments) and report on the progress of the game.
2. In Despotism, the Despot is encouraged but not required to ask opinions and advice.
3. The Despot may or may not ask some players to fulfill certain functions of planning or advice.
4. The Despot may be cast out by majority decision at any time by citizen poll (not to be less than 3 days).
5. A “Remove the Despot Poll” will be phrased as “I propose myself as new Despot” yes/no.

Monarchy

1. Upon achieving Monarchy, play will stop and an election is required.
2. The Monarch will choose the positions of Minister he desires and appoint them (subject to acceptance by the appointees).
3. The Monarch must have at least 3 Ministers and is expected to follow their advice.

Republic/Democracy

1. Upon achieving Republic/Democracy, play will stop and an election is required.
2. There will be elections for Ministers of Trade, War, City-Planning, and Science. City-Planning includes new locations.
3. The Consul/President can be removed at any time for not following advice of Ministers.
4. The Consul/President can remove any Minister for bad advice and appoint or allow election for a replacement.

Communism/Fundamentalism

1. The same Secretaries/Priests as Republic/Democracy except that any can be removed at any time for any reason by the Premier/High Priest.
2. The Premier/High Priest can be removed only by majority decision of the Secretaries/Priests.

Citizens

Any Citizen can post a poll at any time demanding a change of government available at the time (3 days minimum poll and specify kinds of governments to be considered).

Is all this agreeable? I’ll seek a suitable map for our needs.

	11-01-2004 05:53									#2
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I agree with the ramblings of the cavebear.

	11-01-2004 11:17									#3
	Re: Civ2 Demo Game #4 Poll Results and Further Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by cavebear Is all this agreeable? I’ll seek a suitable map for our needs.

Let's go for it.

RJM at Sleeper's

	11-01-2004 15:21									#4
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Sounds good.

	12-01-2004 12:43									#5
	Re: Civ2 Demo Game #4 Poll Results and Further Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by cavebear 3. There will be no Ironclads

NOOOOOOO!!!!! My precious Superclads!

quote: 1. Upon achieving Monarchy, play will stop and an election is required.

Just one thing to consider - how exactly will we decide whether or not to change Govts? This should be the one thing that should almost be required if supported with a poll, else we could well stay as Despots forever.

	12-01-2004 13:13									#6
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Now that Stu has provided us with a map - who is the first despot? Did I understand that we are going to have an elected despot? Before we discover any political technology? There must be a more macho way to decide it than a cissy election

RJM at Sleeper's

	12-01-2004 15:11									#7
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First up, who wants to be the leader?
Next, how can we go about deciding between those brave souls putting themselves forward to lead the new nation? If we weren't on the net then I'd suggest a trial by force (armwrestling, basically), but as it is then that will depend upon those who put themselves forward and what capabilities they have. It'd be nice to have them play a quick MP match, but that's unlikely as it'd depend upon them both having MGE, the time and willingness to play. Otherwise, some other kind of online duel would be nice, perhaps with one of those shooty games. If the worst comes to the worst then maybe we could ask the crazy people in the Other Games forum to set up one of their weird forum games. Maybe (if we've only got two people vying for control of the nation) they could set up a fight, with the different moves (high/low/ mid attack or defense) and a certain number of hit points. This is only a rough idea, and, as I said, they're the experts.

	12-01-2004 18:42									#8
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Ugh. I WOULD be OOC (out of the country) at this time...

	13-01-2004 00:03									#9
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by rjmatsleepers Now that Stu has provided us with a map - who is the first despot? Did I understand that we are going to have an elected despot? Before we discover any political technology? There must be a more macho way to decide it than a cissy election RJM at Sleeper's

What map are you talking about, and who is "Stu"?

	13-01-2004 00:08									#10
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I think that self-nominations and a subsequent election to choose the first Despot will work just fine.

	13-01-2004 04:27									#11
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* Sparrowhawk thinks that Cavebear needs to read his own thread
"Stu" is aka Scouse Gits [1] and he posted a map on your thread requesting the same in the general forum
Our Map?

	13-01-2004 04:54									#12
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Forgot I had already posted it! Thanks.

	13-01-2004 05:02									#13
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OK, back to the game.

I think Hydey would make an excellent First Despot....

Anyone want to nominate themselves or somebody else?

	13-01-2004 10:13									#14
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quote: Originally posted by cavebear OK, back to the game. I think Hydey would make an excellent First Despot.... Anyone want to nominate themselves or somebody else?

I accept the nomination and call upon any else interested to nominate.

	13-01-2004 11:20									#15
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Hydey would

A) beat the sh1t out of other prospective despots
B) use his amazons to distract them

It's gotta be hydey.

RJM at Sleeper's

	13-01-2004 15:23									#16
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I'm scared of Hydey. He seems to be an excellent choice!

(His hired goons are also a lot prettier than the usual )

	14-01-2004 02:13									#17
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Hydey

Question If we are demo and build SOL can we switch to any Gov we want, without pre requisites.

	14-01-2004 08:55									#18
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In the game, AFAIK, yes. Or did you mean were we restricting ourselves voluntarily? In that case, I think also yes (permitted).

	14-01-2004 19:34									#19
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Thanks CB, I was refering to our self imposed form of government.



This is going to be FUN

	14-01-2004 19:56									#20
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How long is the "Hydey is the strongest and would therefore be the best ruler/banana" non-poll not going to be open for, and so when can we start playing the game?

	15-01-2004 00:18									#21
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Well, let's see if anyone else steps forward by tommorrow, and then go ahead with the game...

	15-01-2004 02:15									#22
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i'll be a poor citizen under the tyranny of our first despot.
(hit me, yes, hit me!)

	15-01-2004 04:47									#23
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Cavebear/Hydey, please note that Scouse Gits updated the map originally posted in the General Forum. Apparently there were problems with the original map.

	15-01-2004 05:30									#24
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The map starts us off with 12 techs! I've asked Scouse Gits if he can remove the extra techs. I also asked him to name our civ Apolytonia and the leader Apolytonus (I hope that is satisfactory since I didn't think we wanted to delay a week while we polled on it). We can change the leader name at game startup if that one is annoying.

	15-01-2004 08:45									#25
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Yikes! 12 Techs to begin with! I agree with cavebear, I think we will not be wanting any advantages like that here, with our strict setup DISadvantages...

And Hydey for Dictator! We will all live under the whip of his cruel (yet oh so desirable.... Whip! Ouch, alright! I'm getting back to work...) Amazons. Oh the agony and the ecstasy....

And at least it will give our childrens' childrens' childrens' etc a really good civ to start with when they overthrow the Tyrant. And maybe if I'm REALLY lucky some of my descendants will have some Amazon in them....

	15-01-2004 14:14									#26
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You'll have no time for descendants, now get back to work! We're going to need some huts built on our worthless lump of rock, and you're charged with producing the plans!

I'm afraid that we'll just have to end up with open tech options. You could reload the game loads of times until we get as few techs as possible, but SG is right - we'll always end up with quite a few starting techs because of the useless starting position. So we can open it as a scenario, and delete all the techs before playing with open techs, as that's the only way to go from here. We could restrict ourselves further by insisting that we take a junk tech on the way to Monarchy so that it ends up as our fourth tech, which it would be anyway. It's not as though our tech path is going to be affected by hut techs.

	15-01-2004 15:15									#27
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quote: Originally posted by duke o' york You'll have no time for descendants, now get back to work! We're going to need some huts built on our worthless lump of rock, and you're charged with producing the plans!

* MrWhereItsAt looks down at his pickaxe (made of copper - no Bronze yet), and gets back to work.

Two swings later the tool bends again, and he spends the next 30 minutes putting it back into shape.

He starts swinging again. Two more.

He starts to cry.

	19-01-2004 01:02									#28
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quote: Originally posted by cavebear The map starts us off with 12 techs!

Damn it! 12 techs?!

Can you post the map please? This is the first time I hear about more than 9 techs at start! I need to check it out!

	19-01-2004 01:58									#29
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Go to :

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...threadid=106124

and download the map. It may vary in techs slightly each time, but I got 12 techs first try.

	19-01-2004 02:12									#30
	Tired of ads?

OK, we are getting lost in the details. I thought Zedd was asking if he could have someone he knew do some editing to correct the techs. I misunderstood, and that is not his fault. Now it would take several days for yaroslav to be available to eliminate the techs and avoid an open tech tree.

I say we get the game going. Surely the loss of 12 techs is greater than the advantage we gain in having an open tech tree (which I think should be our right anyway).

I suggest that I send our chosen Despot Hydey the scenario save I made without the extra techs, with the "open tech tree", and let's just get on with the game.

Objections? Agreements?