16-01-2004 02:38									#91
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

This is really fun. Yes that's right. In true communism resources are supposed to be unlimited. People do not have to work. However they WANT to work. Some people want to be teachers. Other people want to learn. There is your education. I understand though lots of you have a very hard time to understand this concept.

Oh and I also agree that no country in the earth is in true communism. Perhaps it is a dream after all. But it is a good dream, isn't it?

	16-01-2004 02:41									#92
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara But I know you hate everything that was the USSR, so I guess they must all have ben stupid.

And we can come right back at ya with your own, opposite bias -- "I hate everything that is capitalist, so I guess all capitalists are stupid."

	16-01-2004 02:42									#93
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara It's just been my personal experience that most of the people from Communist countries were a hell of a lot more knowledgable about everything in general than my fellow countrymen or even other Westerners I met. But I know you hate everything that was the USSR, so I guess they must all have ben stupid.

You mean, you agree more with the commies you've met, so you think they must be more knowledgable.

And, of course, it is representative sampling to compare commies with the resources for international travel to all the bubbas in north Florida.

	16-01-2004 02:42									#94
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by HongHu Oh and I also agree that no country in the earth is in true communism. Perhaps it is a dream after all. But it is a good dream, isn't it?

No. Distribution of wealth is a bad thing and offers absolutely no incentive for progress. Expectation that man will work for the greater good is folly.

'Course this has been hashed over ad infinitum.

	16-01-2004 02:43									#95
	Support Apolyton

Mmmm. And who wants to be the the mortician, or the garbage collector, or the cleaner of the sewage pipes in this utopia? I'm sure people will volunteer in droves to do that work.

-Arrian

	16-01-2004 02:44									#96
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

HongHu, it is good to see that you agree that education is superfluous in a land where all is supplied by .... ??? .... because in such a land, work is a hobby, and knowledge and skill are simple curiousities.

Sounds just like the Garden of Edan.

	16-01-2004 02:47									#97
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Arrian Mmmm. And who wants to be the the mortician, or the garbage collector, or the cleaner of the sewage pipes in this utopia? I'm sure people will volunteer in droves to do that work. -Arrian

There will be no school, there will be no cities, there will be no progress. Problem solved, commie utopia. Back to the aboriginal state we were meant to be in.

	16-01-2004 02:51									#99
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by BeBro Well, we have, finally....

And a proud day it was for Europe.
And communism wasn't East Germany's creation...Just part of those events in history.

	16-01-2004 02:53									#100
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by HongHu Oh and I also agree that no country in the earth is in true communism. Perhaps it is a dream after all. But it is a good dream, isn't it?

Yes, millions of liquidated people, and wretched human slave animals.

Simply wonderful, dahling!

	16-01-2004 02:59									#101
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Ok, I make jokes about communism, but when people seriously post that communist Apolytoners would support any crimes against humanity to advance their ideology, I wonder about those people who make such posts.

Chegitz, Monkspider, and the others have stated in the past -- over and over -- that while there have been corrupt, oppressive communist regimes, that a communist government based on justice and integrity is still a possibility.

	16-01-2004 03:05									#102
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

MrFun, have you ever heard a communist not argue that the end justifies the means?

	16-01-2004 03:09									#103
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Humanity first, ego-feeding ideologies last, is my motto.

I find that most of the 'communists' on the net would shrivel up with fear, had they a taste of the real thing.

Middle-class plastic-rebels, anyone?

	16-01-2004 03:11									#104
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

There is no communism based on justice and integrity. I bet the Soviet citizens had their mind blown when their state collapsed from internal political and internal rot. Hell, who would have expected that when they read every year in Pravada that production in everything is up 200%.

"What do you mean we lost the cold war, our economy is 10,000 percent better then when we started?"

Communism has to lie to itself keep itself going, becasue nothing in any communist state works like they say it does. The sad thing is that so many people not at the top actually believed it worked, becasue they were told it did. There is a reason there are no true communist states, becasue it is pure fiction, of the same intellectual level of My Little Pony.

	16-01-2004 03:13									#105
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

dp

	16-01-2004 03:13									#106
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by HongHu This is really fun. Yes that's right. In true communism resources are supposed to be unlimited. People do not have to work. However they WANT to work. Some people want to be teachers. Other people want to learn. There is your education. I understand though lots of you have a very hard time to understand this concept. Oh and I also agree that no country in the earth is in true communism. Perhaps it is a dream after all. But it is a good dream, isn't it?

Resources are unlimited exactly how?

	16-01-2004 03:13									#107
	Support Apolyton

Just because a communist state has not succeeded yet, does not mean it is not possible.

	16-01-2004 03:19									#108
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by MrFun Following your logic Patroklos, then that means because there have been oppressive capitalist countries, then this means ALL capitalist countries are oppressive.

Wrong. His logic is that the current trend of 100% of Communist countries being oppressive will continue. Only SOME capitalist countries to date have been oppressive, whereas ALL communist countries to date have been oppressive.

quote: Just because a communist state has not succeeded yet, does not mean it is not possible.

True. However, just because my experiment has not managed to prove my hypothesis yet (indeed, it seems to have DISPROVED it) does not mean it is not possible.

Just exceedingly unlikely.

	16-01-2004 03:17									#109
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

dammit, qp

	16-01-2004 03:19									#110
	Tired of ads?

*sigh* qp

	16-01-2004 03:17									#111
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

qp

	16-01-2004 03:18									#112
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

qp

and don't laugh, it's not MY fault it takes ~4 minutes for Poly to process my post

	16-01-2004 03:24									#113
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

The same sad drivel against communism that always comes up.

HELLO! How many of you geniuses have read any of the communist thinkers? Do you guys know the theories? The actual theories, not the charicaritures you have built in your own minds? I have never heard the above posters show any real understanding of how communism is supposed to work theoretically, or be able to tell the difference between a bolshevik and a menshivik, a trotskyite vs a Stalinist v a Leninist v a Maoist vs. the Khmer Rougue.

There are in depth, serious cirticism of Marx's work- a lot of it I disagree with- but the level of counter-arguement here is freshman HS, and ignorant freshman HS at that.

	16-01-2004 03:29									#114
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

GePaP, perhaps we exhibit caution due to the prior examples to create communism in this world.

	16-01-2004 03:32									#115
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by skywalker Wrong. His logic is that the current trend of 100% of Communist countries being oppressive will continue. Only SOME capitalist countries to date have been oppressive, whereas ALL communist countries to date have been oppressive.

Nicaragua was not oppressive, and the early Russian Revolution was not oppressive. I could list a few more, but the rest of them collapsed quickly due to outside interference. The trend has historically been, those workers revolts that are non-repressive either are quickly crushed by the capitalists or must become repressive in order to survive. Those that start out repressive survive.

quote: quote: Just because a communist state has not succeeded yet, does not mean it is not possible. True. However, just because my experiment has not managed to prove my hypothesis yet (indeed, it seems to have DISPROVED it) does not mean it is not possible. Just exceedingly unlikely.

It does depend on your inital conditions, though, doesn't it. After all, there have been no control version of Communism, i.e., how will communism succeed when half the world isn't trying to destroy it? If I stood behind you whacking you in the head every few minutes while you were doing your SATs, how well do you think you'd do?

	16-01-2004 03:36									#116
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by GePap The same sad drivel against communism that always comes up..

I second that.

	16-01-2004 03:38									#117
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Ned GePaP, perhaps we exhibit caution due to the prior examples to create communism in this world.

Yes, but do you know which forms of communism came to power?

An orthodox Marxist state never came into being- simply becuase none of the communist states that came into being were formed by true proleteriat revolutions-perhaps becuase we have not yet gotten to the final stages of the capitalist, and becuase perhaps the capitalist have hobbled themselves by incorporating socialist ideas to cut of the revolution.

The forms of communism that came to power were based on the additional ideas of Lenin and the other Bolsheviks, who added a political dimension- specifically the power of a vanguard political movement that would as it where take charge of history and guide the system to the revolution without having to go through advanced capitalism like Marx said. This was the nature of the menshevik, bolshevik split in Russia before the revolution. All forms of communism that took power were based on the "political vanguard" model, even if Mao modified the ideology to make it more applicable to peasants. This is the form of communism that failed, the "political vanaguard" model. We have seen Leninism fail, Maoism fail. Marxism though, still has legs.

	16-01-2004 03:39									#118
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by Ned GePaP, perhaps we exhibit caution due to the prior examples to create communism in this world.

Some of the "achievements" of capitalist countries:

colonialism

genocide

slavery

repressive distribution of wealth within each country

violent suppression of laborers and workers

anti-communist, puppet dictatorships forced on Third World countries



You see how by only listing the bad things about capitalist countries, that we can distort their histories? Well, that's the same thing many anti-communist Apolytoners have done on here when discussing communist ideology's potential by only focusing on the atrocities committed by past communist countries.

	16-01-2004 03:40									#119
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Ned GePaP, perhaps we exhibit caution due to the prior examples to create communism in this world.

Then why did your co-thinkers excercise due caution before there were any examples in the world? Why was the Paris Commune drowned in blood? Why was the Russian Revolution invaded by 14 different countries? Why were Red Hungary and Finland by outsiders? If you beat puppy from birth, it will become a cruel beast.

BTW, Ned, when most people go off about Communism, they generally are referring to the USSR. So even if I don't accept the USSR as actual communism (and they never claimed to be anything more than socialist, btw), I can still defend the USSR ion certain areas. Just because it was monstrous in some capacities doesn't make it monstrous in all. Otherwise the U.S. would be nothing but a genocidal land grabbing country, England would be no more than African and Indian butchering pirates, etc.

It is the nature of all things to have multiple facets, so good, some bad, some irrelevent to your point. Recognition of this does not mean universal approval or condemnation.

	16-01-2004 03:41									#120
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by curtsibling Communism = History's biggest con. If the people had been properly educated, they would have overthrown such a sick form of government.

Sick form of government?

quote: Just because a communist state has not succeeded yet, does not mean it is not possible.

Exactly. We're yet to see a Marxist state, so the theory cannot be disproved.