18-01-2004 01:38									#61
	Full PM-box? Change here!

TCO: Well, thanks for the opportunity to spit out pro-Orthodox propaganda.

Ted: I don't see why "wanting" to do something matters. I think things worth doing should be done regardless of how unpleasant they are. Many modern churches may be dry and out of touch with you, but they aren't just institutions of the present age. To continue my already-overused government analogy, Jimmy Carter was a pretty lame president, but the office of the President still needed to be preserved, right? Granted, we haven't had a non-lame president since, like, FDR, and there's some argument about him, but we have to hope for a return to former dignity. Same thing with the church. If you want to be inspired, put something into your religion for a change.

	18-01-2004 03:01									#62
	Got spare money?

The Anglican Communion churches are like the Roman Catholic Church post-Vatican II only we did what they did in Vatican II 400 years earlier and we don't have a Pope. We have term limited bishops and arch-bishops who are elected by counsels of laymen and clergy. The laymen on the counsels are themselves elected by the parishoners and the parish clergy are individually hired by the parishoners. Of course our clergy may marry. We're encouraged by the recent progress within the Roman Catholic Church and are reasonably hopeful that they will finally catch up to us in less than another 400 years.

	18-01-2004 13:54									#63
	Get a bigger avatar today!

* Ben Kenobi munches popcorn from the sidelines.

quote: I think things worth doing should be done regardless of how unpleasant they are.

TCO has a point. Why go to church if church is a drag? Go to church if you enjoy doing so. The very fact that you don't really want to go is a sign that something is amiss, either in your own life, or in the church.

	18-01-2004 19:16									#64
	Suffering from ads?

Well, getting tetanus shots is a drag too, and we still need those. Church is meant for the glorification of god. Entertaining the congregation, while a relevant concern in a culture with a TV-induced lack of an attention span, is secondary. Certainly that shouldn't be the main measure of a church's worth. At least, I don't think so.

	19-01-2004 21:31									#65
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark ...I am a Jew because the word of Israel is the oldest and the newest...

The Bushmen of the Kalahari, the Animists of West Africa and of course the aborigines of Australia had religion thousands of years before the first mud brick of Ur was laid down (and by implication, 1,000s of years before Abraham).

And if the word of Israel is the oldest... what about those exhortations not to sacrifice at the "High Places"? Seems to suggest a pre-Abrahamic religion to me...

The beliefs of the Native Americans and the Hindu's could again be older than Judaism, but the above examples definitely are.

I'm not saying that these religions are better or indeed different to Judaism - just much, much older, and still practised today.

	19-01-2004 22:15									#66
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quote: Well, getting tetanus shots is a drag too, and we still need those.

True, repentence is not much fun, but you do Christianity a disservice by leaving out the joy.