14-01-2004 17:39									#1
	MegaByteVille: switch production to a boy scout? Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

According to this war plan (which no one has given any negative comment on yet, so I assume it will be accepted ), no transport will pass through MegaByteVille (MBV), so no garrison can be shipped to there anywhere in the near future. Therefore I'd like to request to switch production in MBV to a boy scout (1~-1-1) instead of the current rec commons. It will keep the base safe for a possible surprise counterattack by a schooner or so, and make one citizen content next turn already. Rec commons would make two content, but we don't have the cash to hurry right now (at least if we want to take a shot at the PEG), so it could take quite a while before that gets built. For these reasons it seems best IMHO to build a garrison unit first.
I put the voting limit on three days.

	14-01-2004 18:21									#2
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I agree, switch to buoy scout (a boy scout is a member of the Scout Movement, a buoy is something that floats in the sea as a marker. I think the latter implies ampibious ability better )

	14-01-2004 18:28									#3
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quote: Originally posted by Drogue I agree, switch to buoy scout (a boy scout is a member of the Scout Movement, a buoy is something that floats in the sea as a marker. I think the latter implies ampibious ability better )

I know I know. I named the units like that as a little joke of me in reference to PEACE's buoy scouts.

	14-01-2004 18:42									#4
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Ahhh, in that case nicely done Subtle but funny.

And there was underestimating European's English again It always amazes me how people with far more phonetic languages than us manage to comprehend how many words we have that have different spellings/meanings and the same pronounciation

	14-01-2004 20:09									#5
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Heres an alteranate idea.

If we are comited to having the Mammoth pass through Triplex to pick up units their then let come adjacent to Bird Island first and unload the scout patrol onto the Island at (61,63) (possibly the Probe too if we want to attack or steal the former/crawler their). We can then upgrade it to the desired Boy Scout at the very low cost of 10 Credits on its next turn and move it into MBV by walking across the Island (their is river at (59,63) to help speed us up too). Thus we can have the desired Boy Scout without having to take minerals away from a usefull Rec Comons.

And best of all the Mammoth is not slowed down in its journy to Triplex, it just moves west then South and its within range of Triplex ware it can unload a Plasma Garrison and load the Rover and Marines for a full load of Woop Ass ready to stike Lair the next turn or Pampalona/Boot in 2 turns.

	14-01-2004 20:32									#6
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If it works like that, I'm all for Impaler's idea That scout has little use, and it means we get the RC sooner too

	14-01-2004 20:39									#7
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The problem would only be moved then: what unit will garrison Triplex? You'll probably answer: the plasma garrison. But then the problem only moves even further: what unit would garrison Liar's Lair after we captured it?
In my EAF opinion we simply have too little garrison units available at the moment to cover all bases, so some boy scouts need to be built. Where they are built is less important to me. The rec commons could continue to be built in MBV, but only if production in Triplex is changed instead to a garrison unit (we would waste 10 credits on upgrading the future MBV garrison that way though). If we don't get some cheap garrison units fast, our forces will become spread too thin, to the point where our bases have no garrison at all (such as now in MBV), which will make us very vulnerable to any PEACE counterattack, even if it's a small one.

	14-01-2004 20:52									#8
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As we capture more and more of PEACE's Bases I imagine we will need to leave them with little or no Garrison for a brief time. I think the chance of a PEACE counter attack grows dimmer every turn and in any event we could easily intercept it before it threatened a base.

We currently have units that can garrison bases in our transports plus the 2 in Triplex. Thus our current attack force is sufficient to Garrison all of PEACE's remaining uncaptured bases once the war is over. Ofcorse we cant just leave a unit in each base as our attack forces at the front would become insufficient. I propose we use Doctors to control most of PEACE's Bases untill the war is over then we turn our transports in reverse and spread some of the attack force back into the concoured territory and use them as Garrison troops. This would be the cheapest solution it seems as we can focus on Rec Commons and greatly offset the cost assosiated with Hurrying them. The sooner we can return these bases to productivity the sooner our war investments will bear fruit.

Also dose anyone know the formula for our Capture Drones and how long they will last? It would be handy to know the adsact year each base will "assimilate"

	14-01-2004 20:53									#9
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I agree. I think we should make a boy scout our first build order on capturing a base, and an RC the second. We can use the scout for MBV, the plasma for Triplex (most likely to be countered) and then build them when we get out. We know where PEACE's units are, we know where they're building them, and we cna cut of any counterattack. I think for drones and peace of mind we should make a boy scout the first production, but there's little need to worry.

I'd go for Impaler's plan atm, unless the scout has plans to help us catch a base.

	14-01-2004 20:57									#10
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Once again I find myself in agreement with Impaler. Triplex needs a garrison, due to it's stature, as does MBV, IMHO. They are also the quickest drone control (1/4 of an RC, and half as effective, IIRC). But we can leave a lot until the end of the war. We've won it, and we need productive bases!

	14-01-2004 21:02									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Impaler[WrG] As we capture more and more of PEACE's Bases I imagine we will need to leave them with little or no Garrison for a brief time.

But if we can shorten that period by building a very cheap scout first instead of a rec commons, I see no reason not to do so.

quote: I think the chance of a PEACE counter attack grows dimmer every turn and in any event we could easily intercept it before it threatened a base.

I'll agree to that when they have no more naval units. For now I would like to stay on my guard.

quote: We currently have units that can garrison bases in our transports plus the 2 in Triplex.

We currently have four garrison units: a boy scout in Athena, a scout patrol and a plasma garrison in CCS Mammoth and a plasma garrison in CCS Impaler. All the rest are offensive units and therefore should IMHO be used for offense as much as possible, so the PEACE war can end as soon as possible.

quote: I propose we use Doctors to control most of PEACE's Bases

If we built a scout first every time, we would have to use one less doctor in every base which means one more worker. The little investment of 8 minerals would soon be gained back.

quote: Also dose anyone know the formula for our Capture Drones and how long they will last? It would be handy to know the adsact year each base will "assimilate"

IIRC it's five drones after a base is captured. The amount reduces by one every ten years, which means the drones turn to normal after 50 years. Also there's a rule that the amount of drones added cannot be larger than the base size.

	14-01-2004 21:06									#12
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That's a long time. With our normal drones, it will be 20 years before we would have a normal citizen, without drone controls

	14-01-2004 21:11									#13
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Drogue, I'm unsure, are you in agreement with Impaler or me?
You say Impaler, but these quotes of you suggest the opposite:

quote: I agree. I think we should make a boy scout our first build order on capturing a base, and an RC the second.

quote: Triplex needs a garrison, due to it's stature, as does MBV, IMHO. They are also the quickest drone control (1/4 of an RC, and half as effective, IIRC).

**

quote: We've won it, and we need productive bases!

We can make captured bases productive fastest by building a cheap scout first instead of an expensive rec commons.

	14-01-2004 21:28									#14
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I differ from both of you slightly. I think we should make the first order of every captured base a scout. However I am not sure about the MBV. I'd probably say use the scout as per Impaler's idea, and then build them nearer the front line. Or the other way around, build one in MBV, and use the ones we have as garrisons near the front.

	14-01-2004 21:35									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Drogue I'd probably say use the scout as per Impaler's idea, and then build them nearer the front line.

The problem with that will be that Liar's Lair won't have a garrison unit when the offensive units leave that base MY 2155. If we build a garrison in MBV now instead of using the scout patrol, we'll have a unit free to stay in Liar's Lair.

quote: Or the other way around, build one in MBV, and use the ones we have as garrisons near the front.

That would be my preference.

	14-01-2004 22:00									#16
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Yes, and if we build one in MBV, then MBV won't have a garrison when the offensive unit's leave/left.

What about hurrying? Could that help either. I'd rather have one undefended turn in LL than another 3 or so in MBV. MBV is a bigger target IMHO.

	14-01-2004 22:15									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Drogue Yes, and if we build one in MBV, then MBV won't have a garrison when the offensive unit's leave/left. What about hurrying? Could that help either. I'd rather have one undefended turn in LL than another 3 or so in MBV. MBV is a bigger target IMHO.

I don't understand. If you don't want MBV to remain undefended, my option is the way to go.

If we switch MBV production to a boy scout, it will be finished MY 2154. Also we'll have an extra unit that can immediately garrison Liar's Lair.

If we use Impaler's option of using the scout patrol in CCS Mammoth, we'd first have to drop the scout on the island MY 2153. Then MY 2154 it would need to be upgraded for 10 credits. Only in MY 2155 it could enter MBV. Also with this option Liar's Lair will be undefended for two turns or so.

	14-01-2004 22:49									#18
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I agree MBV is a more likly target for military action, Triplex is more likly for a Probe attack (assuming they dont cancel their Cruiser Probe). So its more important for MBV to have a good defender.

If the Scout patrol moves as I recomend then the Mammoth Transport will not hold any units that it can Garrison Lair with, a counter attack is unlikly but Lair would be slower in returning to productivity. So its a trade off between accelerating the return of MBV or Lair to a productive Drone free status, MBV has more potential in my opinion so we may wish to use the scout their.

	14-01-2004 23:15									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Impaler[WrG] So its a trade off between accelerating the return of MBV or Lair to a productive Drone free status

I don't see why. The option where we let MBS builds it own garrison will bring both MBV and Lair faster in productivity than the option where there is no scout built in MBV.

	14-01-2004 23:58									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac I don't understand. If you don't want MBV to remain undefended, my option is the way to go. If we switch MBV production to a boy scout, it will be finished MY 2154. Also we'll have an extra unit that can immediately garrison Liar's Lair. If we use Impaler's option of using the scout patrol in CCS Mammoth, we'd first have to drop the scout on the island MY 2153. Then MY 2154 it would need to be upgraded for 10 credits. Only in MY 2155 it could enter MBV. Also with this option Liar's Lair will be undefended for two turns or so.

I was talking about giving it the plasma steel defender in Triplex. Plus I thought it would take longer to get the scout built, which isn't the case.

I'm with Maniac on this. Change production to a boy scout.

	15-01-2004 05:05									#21
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"Megabyteville"? That is so uncreative. It's like naming a city "Everyonelovestassadarcausehesthebestville". Too forced.

Before you do anything, change the name!!!

	15-01-2004 09:52									#22
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But Tass, MBV is a nice little acronym. It would take precious processor time to find a name with such an easy acronym

I have one question through all of this - if we did go with an option like Impaler's and had a base or two left undefended for a few turns, what could we potentially lose? Just a rather small base? If so then having a base or two at risk like this is not much of a risk at all.

If this is a POTENT risk then play it safe. If it will do little against us then there's no worry. After all, it is not at all certain that PEACE would chance upon an undefended base at exactly the few turns it is in such a state.

	15-01-2004 15:47									#23
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MWIA: If we lose a base, we have to recapture it, it loses pop, and becomes productive a lot later. It won't help PEACE, but it will harm us after the war.

Also, garrisons reduce one drone, and for 8 mins, that's a good deal Even without the risk it's worth it, with a slight risk there, it's very much worth it IMHO.