18-12-2003 19:10									#121
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I have opened the 2149 turn and had a look at Alexandria's Defences as we were planing to do. They are basicaly what we expected. A very green scout patrol (amphibius) and a very green Foil Transport which was propaply down in their to alow them to move formers from the base onto the surrounding islands.


Nothing I saw indicates we need to change our orders in any way. Our forces will be set up for an excelent attack on Alexandria next turn. The Transport will be 4 moves from Alexandria and our Cruisers Alpha Pi and Love Boat in the Fungus 3 moves from Alexandria.

I propose we first move the Cruiser adjacent to Alexandria and attack any Probe Foils we see with Love Boat. Then we move the transport adjacent and attack the scout and transport with the Rover (advantage should be ~3.5 vs ~1.1 so we can crush them both easily (even our Cruisers suffering the 100% defence penalty wold have a 2-1 advantage). Then we send in 1 probe team for infiltration.

Once we have infiltration we should stop and carfully examine every scrap of data we have before making our next move.

If all is good then any avalible cruiser then captures the base and we take a tec. As the base has Rec Commons we should need little of no police to prevent riots (beware we could trigger B-Drones in our other bases). Set production to scout patrol (might as well include amphbius as its the same cost). Now we move the transport to Casablanca and the Marines attack it, again huge advantage means we take little or no damage. Second Cruiser then moves in and takes Casablanca (is that possible if its a land base?).

Next turn the Transport can move to Tripoli by backtraking east and hooking around to come from the North. The Rover and Marines attack possibly with the help of the Cruisers too and they take Tripoli. The following turn Margarita can be attacked by our 2 new Cruisers Beta Pi and Node Runner. Our Marines or Rover can then do the capture to restore health (their getting run down by now). From their its smooth sailing to Sea lurk and Liar's Lair and Pampalona and the rest is just moping up.

	18-12-2003 19:35									#122
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quote: Now we move the transport to Casablanca and the Marines attack it, again huge advantage means we take little or no damage. Second Cruiser then moves in and takes Casablanca (is that possible if its a land base?).

cruiser cant capture land bases

	18-12-2003 19:38									#123
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Darn it, ok you military experts come up with the plan then as I am realy unfamiliar with the mechanics involved and will likly get us in trouble.

	18-12-2003 19:38									#124
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might i suggest still building military units to send into the colonies...you never know when we might hit a hard spot...

	18-12-2003 19:41									#125
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well i dont know if there is room in the transports but a simple garrison unit can take in a base that has no defenders....so attack with the marines to take out the defences and drop a garrison in there for defence and capture...but the transport might be full i dont know ... havent been around that long

	20-12-2003 08:11									#126
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ALERT

Dut to an unfamiliatrity with the rules, a new PEACE member was "playing with the save" and sent a probeship south that encountered your Marine Expeditionary Force. Their official turn probeship did not take that course, so "officially" they don't know that you are on your way (but "unofficially", of course, they do)

They don't know where you are heading (them or an AI faction) and as I picked that info up too late to do anything (like forcing their official move to ensure a meeting - Buster had already played his turn) I have simply reminded the PEACE newcomers of the rules and said that I would advise you that your force has been "illegally" sighted

G.

	20-12-2003 18:41									#127
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Thanks for informing us. I guess this might explain the emoticon of Makahlua and her unusually quick turn play.
Would I be allowed to ask, compared to the trend of their previous turns, have they - after learning of our force - suddenly changed their build orders or their unit positions, which could indicate they expect a military conflict?
If they have, IMHO most honest would be that we at least get to know the current position of the party boat that normally should have moved southeast to meet our force.
Anyway, I guess the different probe foil move won't be that bad if they moved south in an attempt to infiltrate Binary Bastion. Then we can still intercept it with eg our laser cruiser (and hope they don't have a ship floating around the "official" party boat location to counterattack our cruiser, which they possibly couldn't have if the party boat moved southeast. ). In this case we wouldn't be able anymore to use the probe-destroying ship in an attack on Tripoli though.
However if they moved their probe foil somewhere west or north after learning of our move in an attempt to protect it against destruction, this event is rather annoying, as we accelerated the start of the war exactly to prevent PEACE probe foils from infiltrating us and stealing tech, and now they'll have a Party Boat we don't know the location of, and which we should have been able to destroy very easily if it moved southeast.

quote: They don't know where you are heading (them or an AI faction)

IIRC the front of the cruiser transport was pointing west, so I guess it's pretty obvious what direction we're heading.

	20-12-2003 20:52									#128
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I feard PEACE might do something like this. Its relativly easy for anyone to open up the files and to abused them rampatly, test pods, explore in every direction with your units ect ect and then simply pass the information along to the turn player who only needs to load the turn once and thus dosen't get any "blood" on his hands.

Please watch for any additon action of this type. If Peace plans the movment of its military units before they recive their turns and post these plans then it will be relitivly easy to notice a sudden deviation to attack or defend an objective they shouldn't know about.

Fortunatly our ships are much faster so the chance of them being able to pull something off is very slim.

We will compare the infiltration data we will be obtaining on 2150 with the information the Hive sent us of last turn and looking for any signs of an obvius response to our forces. If we feel their are discrepances we will alert you.

Do not fear my Cycon brothers, we shall be victorious non the less, the Hives data reveals a stageringly low energy reserve of 43 credits and an income of 19. Their ability to rush defences is miniscure and their Probes are impotent without funds. Our declaraion of war will be ready shortly and then we have mearly to exicute our plans and all will be ours

	20-12-2003 22:17									#129
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Ah reloading and unofficial moves.... It was bound to surface sooner or later in this game, as it has in others.

How did you find this out, Impaler? Should we take it the moderators and get them to outlaw such a thing?

	20-12-2003 23:05									#130
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Look up 3 Posts

	21-12-2003 01:46									#131
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To finalize things, is it ok if I do the following to attack Alexandria?:

1> Attack the scout patrol with the amphib rover. I presume it will take some damage.
2> Attack the transport with the Impact Squad. It overclasses the transport severely, so it should hardly take any damage.
3> Take the base with the rover, hopefully having still more than 50% HP. This way both our land units will be in near-perfect health to attack Tripoli MY 2151.
4> Use the ships to track down that cursed Party Boat.

	21-12-2003 03:18									#132
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Maniac: Sounds good. Use those as EAF orders. IMHO after that, it would be fair for Googlie to tell us the location of their probe foil, since it knows our location illegally and will now try to avoid it. I understand that they have not intentionally done anything wrong, so I do not ask for punitive damages, but they have gained from their actions, and we have lost. IMHO this would mean that their net gain over us is minimal.

If we do find out where it is, send 1 ship to destroy it and patrol, and put the other one in position to attack Tripoli in 2151.

	21-12-2003 22:37									#133
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Updating with discusiion on MIRC with Manic and Drouge.

Move transport to Alexandria by moving 2 spaces west before moving north, its the same number of moves (4) but could reveal the Probe Foil at no real cost to us.

A unit adjacent to Casablanca from the North East (56,74) should be able to reach Tripoli and Attack it acording to our maps. So attacking Casablanca would be a viable option for our Impact Cruiser if it has nothing else important to do.

Alexandria must be captured first though which the Cruiser could do if our Infantry units do not perform the cap, which depends on how much damage they take in the attack, the Rover could probably get some upgrades which would be very helpfull vs the tougher (sensor array) defences of Tripoli.

In any event we want to be methodical and calculating with all our military moves like good cyborgs aught to be.

	22-12-2003 03:55									#134
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quote: Originally posted by Drogue it would be fair for Googlie to tell us the location of their probe foil, since it knows our location illegally

I agree. It is at 61:79

quote: Originally posted by Maniac Would I be allowed to ask, compared to the trend of their previous turns, have they - after learning of our force - suddenly changed their build orders or their unit positions, which could indicate they expect a military conflict?

There has been no change to their build orders or unit positions between the two turns (other than preparing to shuffle crawlers around on transports)

G.

	25-12-2003 03:02									#135
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For some reason, I highly doubt PEACE "accidently" did this

	25-12-2003 03:31									#136
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Either way, it matters not. The probe is destroyed without a chance to do anything

	25-12-2003 05:47									#137
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WOW...this isnt going half bad...kinda more damage then expected but still

	25-12-2003 06:33									#138
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Well put

	26-12-2003 22:50									#139
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We somehow need to accomplish these objectives next year, with only these units to our availability: CCS Love Boat, CCS Alpha Pi, CCS Mammoth, a probe defence, an impact marine and a amphib rover:

• Capture Tripoli and Margarittaville. The original plan was to only capture Tripoli next year, but if it can be done without much risk, it would be a waste not to go for Mville as well.
  
• Destroy the supply crawler near Tripoli which is harvesting 7 minerals. Destroying it will severely hurt PEACE production and boost ours in Tripoli.
  
• Search and destroy the Tripolitan Party Boat, or at least prevent that it can infiltrate us or steal technology.
  
• Defend our (hopefully) three captured bases against counterattack.

	27-12-2003 05:07									#140
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I'll have a look at the save when I have time (tomorrow evening probably). I'll see what's possible.

	29-12-2003 23:45									#141
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Since I'll most likely be EAF when the next turn arrives, I'll start proposing plans. How about this:

Unity Rover (95.53): Move to our homelands if the drone scout patrol moved out of our way. If not, I'll have to see when we get the turn.

Scout patrol & probe defence (69.63) NE of AP: Move to (66.64). Follow the river so you can get there in one turn.

New Impact Marine in Logic Loop: move three tiles south to (69.77)

CCS Node Runner (73.51): Many possibilities for that... To (63.75) or something?

New Impact Cruiser "CCS Beta Pi" in Pi Square: We'll best wait until we have MY 2151 to make a final decision. Possibilities are striking at Sealurk Channel, or moving next to Margarittaville either by sailing north or south around Bird Island.

CCS Alpha Pi (58.64) next to MVille: Capture it (assuming no new defences are present). Further orders will probably depend on the location of the Tripolitan Barty Boat.
Edit: Oh yeah, better also rehome to MVille.

CCS Love Boat (61.77): move into Athena Anchorage. Here again further orders will probably depend on the location of the Tripolitan Barty Boat.

CCS Mammoth with ALL its cargo: move to (54.68), NE of Tripoli. Use MWIA's map to get there in five moves. Then, assuming nothing has changed about the units in that location, first let the rover attack the crawler that is harvesting the rocky mineral mine. Then let it attack the Tripolitan scout patrol. That's to prevent that the other way around the rover would get too damaged and had no movement point anymore to attack the crawler second). When the base defences are emptied, capture the base with the impact marine.
An alternative is to let the impact marine empty the base defences, then let the rover first attack the crawler and then capture the base. I guess it depends on the odds which I can only check for sure next turn.
When Tripoli is captured, move CCS Mammoth into it and put ALL three land units on hold (so that they are not loaded anymore on the transport). Then, with CCS Mammoth's last movement point, move it back to (54.68). It is scheduled to move to (64.64) in MY 2152 and it has to end MY 2151 on (54.68) to get there. MY 2152 at (64.64) it should pick up the impact marine, probe defence, scout patrol and plasma garrison, which should be waiting there.

Also IMPORTANT! Rehome the Logic Loopean impact marine and rover to Tripoli. I'll explain the reason below.

I have three possible hurry requests. I'll check them for sure next turn. Would these be allowed?

*Probe skimship in DBTSverse Portal: hurry it partially or entirely so it will be finished one turn earlier. We'll need to start production on a new garrison for DBTS much earlier if we're going to switch to Democracy.

*Apolyton Prime plasma sentinel: due to switching to democracy this unit would normally be one mineral short of being produced in MY 2152. I would therefore like to request to hurry production with one mineral here.

* CCS Impaler in Aurora: How about rushing the transport so it is finished one turn earlier, in MY 2152?


One final request is regarding the next production item of Logic Loop. My first thought was of course to switch that base to Hologram Theatre production, but then I noticed there is still one spot free on the CCS Impaler. So I was thinking of the following:
Next year Logic Loop will have 11 minerals of active production and four used for support (after we switch to Democracy). If we rehome the two LL units to Tripoli though (see above), its production will grow again to 13 minerals. Together with the three minerals that will already be transferred over from the previous production item (impact marine), this means that Logic Loop can still produce a unit of 16 minerals ready in MY 2152, so it can still catch the CCS Impaler transport. Therefore I'd like to propose we build one more plasma garrison there before we switch back to civic production.

If that's ok, we'll have as our active army in two years:

• three impact cruisers
  
• one laser cruiser
  
• three impact marines
  
• one amphibious impact rover
  
• three plasma garrisons
  
• one scout patrol
  
• three probe defences
  
• one probe skimship
  
• two transports

Unless PEACE can obtain NonlMath or HEC, I guess these should suffice to conquer PEACE in record speed.

Last edited by Maniac on 30-12-2003 at 05:40

	31-12-2003 23:05									#142
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Node Runner - Did you mean to say (63,57) if so I aprove, if not then I need to remind you that it only has 8 movment points. Also note that moving directly west 8 spaces could also be a good plan, It puts us closer to potentialy attack Calico Island or intercept the Schooner that is their and will likly be sailing south to defend SeaLurk and if we chosse its still an excelent point to attack SeaLurk from.

Love Boat - I would consider upgrading to a 4-3-8 Impact destroyer at 90 Credits, we are looking good economicaly and cashing PEACE Yards will generate 80 credits next year almost completly offsetting the Cost. With this upgrade Love Boat is quite safe from any PEACE foils that it might bump into and should consider going southward under Casablanca and towards Lair. This could put it in a good position to catch the Probe Foil if it flees southwest from Tripoli.

If we are able to find that Foil and destroy it and if we find that PEACE is not making any additional Foils next year then we should consider using our second Probe to steal tecnology at Tripoli before we capture it. Combined with capturing MVille that will give us ALL of PEACEs tecnolgy next turn. This means we will be only 1 capture away from obtaining their invaluable world map which can reveal the location of all of their Schooners, Transports and vast areas of explored territory. Their exploration of the Beliver and Angel coast will be usefull in Probe atempts vs thouse AI's as well.

Last edited by Impaler[WrG] on 01-01-2004 at 23:37

	03-01-2004 05:15									#143
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We currently only have one probe on the war scene. Is it worth risking its capture by attempting to steal a tech at their HQ, while we could gain the tech and map most likely as well by waiting one more year?

	03-01-2004 20:43									#144
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If we dont use the Probe now then we will need to Perform 3 additonal Base captures in 1 year, a higly unlikly even. At best we might capture 2 bases in turn 52 (and thats looking unlikly). We know their Probe cruiser will not be finished for a good number of years, we can take that base before its ready I have no doupt Thus we need not fear their Probes and should use ours to gain their MAP ASAP, it will be invaluable in navigating through their territory and catching/killing their slower units. They still have 3 scooners unaccounted for and their new units will need to be found if they retreat from us.

Every chance we get we should send Probe Defence teams in our transports into their bases to steal tec before we capture so that we may get their maps asap.

	06-01-2004 07:20									#145
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What do others think about this probe issue??

Btw, regarding the defeated faction members discussion in the general forum, should we so openly discuss the option of obliterating bases? PEACE might get ideas. I'd rather keep the issue a bit silent until we have captured all their techs and map. Then it's less harmful if they decide to commit suicide just to annoy us.

	06-01-2004 07:33									#146
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Maniac: Good idea. Should I edit?

About the probe, I'd go for it, personally. Their maps are needed. They also have some laser foils coming out soon.

	12-01-2004 14:41									#147
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I'll present my idea for next year, though first I'll comment a bit about two ideas of Impaler.

A first idea was instead of conquering Casablanca next year, we'd wait one more year and try to mind control the base.
Personally I doubt that's possible. Probably the costs would be enormous. And even if they would only be eg 200 credits, we can use those credits better now for eg upgrading crawlers for SP hurrying. Also postponing the capture of Casablance one year would mean postponing us getting their map with one year, while normally we'll get it next year if we also capture Sealurk Channel.

Another idea was to send CCS Mammoth, instead of to Liar's Lair by passing through Triplex first, to Pamplona by passing through MegaByteVille. However that would mean PEACE gets the the opportunity to finish that probe cruiser in Liar's Lair. Also it would mean two of our best offensive units remain stuck longer in Triplex.

Instead I would propose this:

CCS Impaler with all its units captures Casablanca.

Beta Pi (after rehoming in MBV) destroys the garrison in Sealurk Channel. Alpha Pi captures the base.

CCS Love Boat moves into Triplex. Presumably it will still have 5 MPs left. This means it will have just enough MPs to capture Liar's Lair MY 2154 (after the defences are destroyed) and regain its full strength.

CCS Node Runner's new destination would depend on what PEACE does.

CCS Mammoth moves back next to Triplex. The scout patrol and probe defences unload into Triplex; the impact marines and rover move into the transport. Those two units together with the impact marine and plasma garrison still in transport will strike at Liar's Lair.

This strategy means no garrison can be sent to MegaByteVille. Therefore I would request a boy scout to be produced first in MBV before a rec commons.

	12-01-2004 18:41									#148
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i still have to look at the sav....but agree with maniac on this one...the big problem is that they now have one turn for a counter attack with a probe...right?

	20-06-2004 20:26									#149
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I (we) didn't know Googlie had given the co-ordinates of the Peace Party Boat.

If you look at the Peace turn report thread 2141-2160 page 3 you will see the suggested destination of the party boat 61, 79 was given to Maki before Hobbes's posting.

Now our view was that to actually head towards Boolean and 'discover' the invasion fleet would have been taking advantage of the playing ahead move.

We assumed the fairer approach was to continue as we had originally intended.
We didn't alter our plans to take advantage of this information.

The revealing of the Peace Party boat location had important consequences

* It meant the Cycon didn't have to risk searching for it and hence possible loss of mps which would have impacted on their capture of Alexandria. Knowing where it was meant they could plan the sequence of moves more precisely with regard to capturing Alexandria. Also Cycon at one point thought it would head north. So this location information was of significant assistance to them.

* There was a good chance it would have eluded destruction and hence would have infiltrated the new Cycon base or stolen a tech.

That may not have affected the eventual outcome of the war but it would have meant we could have planned our defence better.

Finally on such a crucial decision we were not given the chance to present a case for not revealing its location.

	20-06-2004 22:21									#150
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I had not know that Googlie had not informed you that he had informed us or that you were not alowed to make any arguments on the matter.

Regardless though when we gained infiltration on Alexandria which was ofcorse our first action on that turn we imediatly opened the bases screen and noted the orientation of the Probe Foil, knowing that orientation (SW) told us it was moving towards our Base Binary Bastion and we would still have intercepted it even without Googlies assistence. He mearly narrowed the possible locations from a handfull of tiles to the adsact tile, our cruisers would still easily have scouted that area and found the foil without Googlies help.

Also note that in Googlies desision he felt that PEACE when faced with the 2 choices of either continuing their original movement or placing their foil in the suicidal location that alowed the discovery of our incoming force they chosse the more advantajus option, which atleast potentialy had the chance of concealing their location. Googlie felt this was a "have your cake and eat it too" as you had learned about the attack and theirs no way to UN-learn that the best thing to do would be to doom the foil to restore balance. Perhaps a bit harsh considering that PEACE made no other changes to base production that would have signaled a knowlage of the incoming attack (if you had that probably would have got you in real hot water).