14-01-2004 23:00									#1
	newb needs guidience Enter the AD-FREE zone

Ok I started a game last night. I have a zip folder that is around 1 mb that has about 7 saves throughout. Please take a look and tell me what you think and what I should do.

My problem is in all my previous games I make it to 2050 without winning. Unless im on the lowest level.


www.utinsomniac.com/civ/civsaves.zip

	15-01-2004 06:19									#2
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I can't download that. Could you email it to me and I'll have a look.

	15-01-2004 08:35									#3
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I down loaded it, but it is showning empty, even though it says it is 1.07mb? What was it zipped with?

	15-01-2004 09:07									#4
	Increase Your PM Length

Thats odd I used win xp!

I could email it no prob just give me a addy

	15-01-2004 09:15									#5
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Ok I just installed xp pro and I couldnt even open the same file that I zipped using it. So I downloaded winzip and used that so you should have no problems now. I replaced the bad file with a good file with the same name so overwrite the first copy. Sorry for that.

	15-01-2004 10:03									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Something weird about that zip file - you sure it's not infected? When I click I am asked twice to download it (usually once). When it's saved it's only ~ 250K and not 1.07Mb as it's supposed to be. Then Winzip says its not a valid archive file and won't open it.

If I download it again, it saves with a DIFFERENT file size! It's also given me a strange explorer type window that I can't open or cancel. I'm gonna have to reboot now.

	15-01-2004 10:09									#7
	Inflate your Upload Space

No wouldnt be a virus I just installed xp pro on a new machine a week ago along with norton 2003. I uploaded it to one of my personal paid for sites. So there is no way there is a virus involved. I run a very large Unreal tournament site so im very aware of this sort of stuff.

The new file should be fine I used winzip and I tried to open it afterwards it opened for me.

I couldnt even get the first file to open and I created it. Unfortunatly I didnt test it first.

But to your question dont worry at all about it being a virus. Just a windows pro bug.

	15-01-2004 12:53									#8
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I hate to break this news to you, bit if you go to the link and select open, it fails.

I would use explorer to open the save folder in C3C. Hilight the saves you want (unzipped) and use the Files in the tool bar. Select the "send to" and use compress files. This should be fine. Load it to the URL and test the DL function from the link.

I run ZoneAlarm Pro and Noron 2004 and they did not complain about virus. *vmxa+sbcglobal.net* replace the + with @. I am already getting more than enough of the dumb MicroSoft bombs.

Last edited by vmxa1 on 28-01-2004 at 03:28

	15-01-2004 14:57									#9
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

You could upload it to Poly?

	15-01-2004 18:15									#10
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 I am already getting more than enough of the dump MS bombs.

Hey! I never dumped anything on you

Are you telling me I should try it from now on?

Or are you telling me I might be (plain) dumb?

	15-01-2004 19:22									#11
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I dont know whats going on I am able to download from the link right there, either by selecting save or open. I host a ton of files on both my sites so I cant figure out whats wrong!!!!


Is there anyone that can get this file other than me????

I tried to use the upload here but im getting a PHP warning

quote: Warning: opendir(): SAFE MODE Restriction in effect. The script whose uid/gid is 32003/504 is not allowed to access /home/apolyton/www/upload/files/techbota owned by uid/gid 99/99 in /home/apolyton/public_html/upload/index.php on line 88

So im not sure what to do. I can try to put the file on my other site. Also if you copy and paste the link you might have a easier time. So you can skip poly's advertising screen!

	15-01-2004 19:58									#12
	Remove this text

To ease your mind I ran a virus scan and provided screen shots. Just click to enlarge.

	15-01-2004 20:09									#13
	Remove this text

I managed to get the files Ok. I downloaded the zip and then extracted the files--9 files in a folder called 'conquest saves'. Seems to work.

I'm using Win98--it still does everything I ask it to. I just haven't seen a compelling enough reason to switch (yet).

@techbota, it will be awhile before I can open/play any of the files, but at least I got them OK.

Edit: spelling /edit

Steven

	15-01-2004 20:15									#14
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

It works for me. Windows XP and UltimateZip.

Some zip programs seem to have problems compressing and decompressing the save files for Civ III. Might have something to do with the files already being compressed. Helping with the GOTM, I used to run into this problem a lot. The save files wouldn't extract, but other file types in the same archive would.

Tried out several zip programs, and found that UltimateZip (it's adware) works on most of the problem files.

	15-01-2004 20:54									#15
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Ahhh that must be it cause I tried using windows zip on another file and it opened just fine!

I wasnt aware that civ3 already compresses their save files!

I was able to use winzip to do it (which AESON is free with no spy or adware) BUT I hope that by double compressing the files that it didnt corrupt them and make them unplayable!

vmxa1 there is no 1 in your email after vmxa? I will send them via email to you later if you wish.

Dammit I want to get some feedback!lol Someone told me not to build spearmen but im not sure if he played the saves or not. I dont have too many basically 2 per city.

Anyways take a looksie.

	15-01-2004 21:06									#16
	Got spare money?

A few quick pointers.

Expand from your center, not outward in. Identify where your city sites are going to be, and then settle the closest ones first. It may be worth it to move a few extra tiles to get to bonus food sources, but otherwise take the closest good city site over a great city site far away. As an exception on this map, once you saw that Iron source a Settler should have been headed to claim it.

Prioritize food instead of production. Cows, Game, and Wheat should usually be Irrigated (and definitely in use). If you grow faster, you'll quickly make up the 'lost' shields. Building a Granary in cities which have bonus food will pay off in the long run, so when you have room to expand like this, build Granaries.

Workers and lots of them. You have only 1 in the first save, and by the AD's only 8. With that starting location you probably want at least 40 by then.

Barracks in high production cities which you are using for building military units. The difference between fighting with Regs and Vets is night and day. As mentioned before, prioritize the connection of military resources. (Iron, Horses, ect.)

--------------

To illustrate the point about food, and to help you better produce your Worker force, consider the location of the green dot to the East of your capitol. Irrigated, the Grassland Wheat will give a city there +4 food. The Game (chopped and Irrigated) will raise that to +5. With a Granary, this will allow your city to grow every other turn.

A city using these tiles should be one of your first 3 or 4. If you don't like the location I marked, several others will do, but require a border expansion and a bit more Irrigation. It will be able to produce a Worker every 2 turns. Another city using the 3 more of those Game tiles (chopped and Irrigated) will give you another city with the same capabilities. Between the two, you will easily be able to produce the Workers necessary to really take advantage of your empire.

I'm not sure if corruption will allow you to have a 4 turn Settler site there, but it should (size 4-6). Several places could turn them out pretty quickly still with their food bonuses and a Granary though.

Attachment: food.jpg
This has been downloaded 138 time(s).

	15-01-2004 21:14									#17
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Winzip has the same problems sometimes. No zip program I've found works in all instances, but UZ seems to have the least problems.

	15-01-2004 23:21									#18
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Now this is the problem im having...lol

I read in the strategy area people said to mine the food (I thought) in despotism.

Also they said get the good stuff and fill in afterwards. Well some said that and others said yyour way but since I tried it your way In this game I thought I would try it the other

I seen the iron too late but if you look closer you will see I had a settler heading that way so I could camp right next to them so I could build a militarty on their front door step. My plan was to take it later.

I had no Idea I would need 40 workers this early in the game.

What about building the wonders? Wouldnt I want these larger cities to build stuff like the great wall and library??

What good does trading maps do when it comes to rescources??? I seen in another thread he said to get them at all cost. Although he didnt specify world or territory.

	15-01-2004 23:55									#19
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Ancient Age wonders are highly overrated most of the time.
(Did I really just say that?)

	15-01-2004 23:55									#20
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Mountain Sage Hey! I never dumped anything on you Are you telling me I should try it from now on? Or are you telling me I might be (plain) dumb?

MS as in the phoney Microsoft tech notices. If you post your email, you can expect to get them every time you open your mail.

	16-01-2004 00:01									#21
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quote: Originally posted by techbota vmxa1 there is no 1 in your email after vmxa? I will send them via email to you later if you wish.

Correct. It was vmxa and then I moved and they would not let me have my original name, so I used VMXA1. Moved again and went back to vmxa. It is painful for me to keep track of which name is used on which forum, each time I lose my cookies.

It is up to you. If you got what you want, then skip it.

	16-01-2004 00:23									#22
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

techbota
"I read in the strategy area people said to mine the food (I thought) in despotism."

Find the link to crackers opening moves in the strat forum. It is part of the topped must reads IIRC. It will explain what a tile is best used for in despotism.

"Also they said get the good stuff and fill in afterwards. Well some said that and others said yyour way but since I tried it your way In this game I thought I would try it the other "

Those may not be conflicting statements, but if in doubt listen to Aeson.

"I had no Idea I would need 40 workers this early in the game."

You need enough to insure that all worked tiles have the proper improvements, or nearly so. That will be at least one per city.
A worked tile is when you look at the city view and see a citizen is on that tile and producing something.
Your next step is to monitor the city to ensure that the proper tiles are being worked and hence improved. IOW a citizen on a hill with no road, is probably not the best tile. Especially if you have a mined grassland not worked.

"What about building the wonders? Wouldnt I want these larger cities to build stuff like the great wall and library??"

This is a complex subject. In brief, you should be able to get many in the ancient age at the lowest levels. You will (given a good location) have time to get a city or two up to a decent size and cranking out shields. This will let you build a given wonder faster than the AI. Now in C3C there are more wonders in the ancient age, so you may need to be discriminating.

It makes no sense to start wonder as soon as you get the tech, if you are a size 3 city with only one other city.

"What good does trading maps do when it comes to rescources??? I seen in another thread he said to get them at all cost. Although he didnt specify world or territory."

I am not sure I follow this one. In the end you need to get all resource types (one of each). Can you post the question with more details? Trading maps now comes quite late and will not have much impact on resources, other than letting see where they are.

Getting them all at all cost, sounds like luxs in a game at maybe emperor or higher. They become very crucial at the higher levels as you have citizens being born unhappy right away.

	16-01-2004 02:32									#23
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by techbota What good does trading maps do when it comes to rescources??? I seen in another thread he said to get them at all cost. Although he didnt specify world or territory.

Perhaps 'Trading Maps' isn't quite the correct terminology. Finding other civs and gaining Communications is what will help keep you in the tech race.

Sure, you can't trade Maps or Communications until much later in the game, but you can do your own exploration and communicating.

It's good to know lots of other civs because the more civs that know a certain tech, the less it's worth if you have to buy it. Also, if you have a tech lead, then the more your tech will be worth to the first couple of civs to buy it. Shop around, sell to the wealthiest civs first.

It's good to know the map (even if you have to uncover most of it yourself) so that you know where the Resources are AND make an educated guess as to where the future Resources will 'likely' be.

Exploration (or rather, lack of) is probably my biggest gameplay problem. I just get caught-up in building that I forget to look around. When I finally do look, someone else has my 'sweet spots'. Also by not exploring enough, I tend to not gain contacts as quickly as I should, thus I tend to not only get 'fenced-in' but also behind in techs. It can be a cripling combo.

Steven

	16-01-2004 03:42									#24
	Remove this text

Ok I just looked at 1625BC and 1075BC.

Research, watch it when you get near the point where it will be discovered, you can save some gold by lower the level to the min needed. In this case it was set to 100% and I lowered to 90% to get it in the next turn. This will really payoff later as you run some deficts for a few turns.

I would consider reevaluating the paths used. To get Alpha much sooner and then Writing and Lit. Alpha gives Curragh and leads to libs. Your contact with Inca, could have allowed you to trade a tech or two for a tech or two. This would be a big boost. They have 3 or 4 techs you do not have. This should not occur at Warlord with so few civs in contact with each other.

The reason is the lack of tile improvements. Only one city is connected to the capitol as late as the 1075BC save. None of the other cities even has a road.

You must connect all cities to the capitol to get the benefit of the capitol on happiness and to share any resources and luxs.

	16-01-2004 03:47									#25
	Tired of ads?

I saw a settler out on its own, no escort, barbs are being fought and AI units are close at hand. This can be very dangerous and is to be avoided after you see barbs. Actually I rarely do it barbs or not.

So where was it going anyway? You have many better sites that are much closer to the capitol. Remember that distane increases corruption and makes more land to road and defend. There are times that it makes sense, such as to get a lux or resource or form a choke point. Bypassing luxs or river sites is not a good plan. You have lots of civs not all that far away. They will soon want to fill those holes.

	16-01-2004 03:54									#26
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Arbelon (can't read my writing here) is making a spear, while it has no roads, no mines and you have at least 4 units out scouting. It also has no barracks. It is ok to make a unit or even two in a town without a barracks, but it is best to avoid doing more than one. It is really better for you to make warriors instead of spears. You cannot upgrade spears to immortals, but you can warriors.

I did not note you having any luxs hooked up, so getting to the Ivroy woud be a good idea. Not to mention it allows SoZ later.

I saw spears out scouting. I would frown on that. Why, because they cannot attack worth a darn. They are fine is on defense, but the barbs are not going to attack the spear anyway. At least the warrior or better yet archer can kill those barbs. This is useful if you come upon camps.

	16-01-2004 04:17									#27
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Antioch and actually most cities were founded way too far apart.
If I was playing at warlord, I would use a loose placement, but size 19 would be my choice.

This allows 19 tiles to be used for each city. This is plenty loose for any game. When you go beyond that you will invite the AI to fill the gaps.

The other aspect is that with wide placement you will need to make a lot more roads and travel a lot farther. This uses worker turns at no profit.

It also makes it harder to defend your cities from attacks by AI or barb uprising (yeah like that happens anymore).

You need to make a worker for each city in the early going. This can be done in any way you want. Either one city makes workers for everone or each city makes one as soon as it can or a combination.

Workers should be working the tile that the first citizen is working at the founding of the city. Working the best tiles with an eye to roading to the capitol.

I forget if I mentioned so far that no city has a single structure added, even at 1075BC. You should have a temple in the capitol around this time and a granary or two. With a granary and some irrigation of bonus food tiles, you would be able to grow faster than the AI.

At warlord you can get by without a temple for some time, but I like it in any capitol or wonder building city. This will allow those cities to be larger and keep more citizens working. This is needed to get the max shields to build.

	16-01-2004 18:59									#28
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I was told to build something like warrior.spearman.settler.spearman.settler.yadda yadda yadda, Before. How would I have time to build granery and temple in that time.

Maybe some of my problem is that I started off in the world of strategy forums then came here. They gave me somewhat different advice.

What exactly should my builds be and in what order with the first city or two?

VXMA1 I noticed a iron source way off by the aztecs. So I was trying to get a city right on their border so I could mass troops there for a attack to take it from them.

THis is all good stuff! Thanks alot!

	17-01-2004 00:16									#29
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

While it is a good plan to get to the iron, I would try to do it in an orderly fashion first. IOW not scurry over a settler, but rather build my empire in that direction.

If push comes to shove you can capture or raze any city there when the time comes, if they beat you to it.

Remember you have an advanage and will have Immortals. Using warriors and archer to swamp them if need be and then upgrading to Immortals. Believe me the Immortals will turn the lights out on the AI at warlord.

At the highest levels they are still strong, but you could get in trouble with the AI having too many units and better tech, hence better units.

	17-01-2004 00:32									#30
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quote: Originally posted by techbota I was told to build something like warrior.spearman.settler.spearman.settler.yadda yadda yadda, Before. How would I have time to build granery and temple in that time. What exactly should my builds be and in what order with the first city or two?

That type of build could be fine at this level, you have a lot of slack as you still get a bonus. The problem to me is that it will hurts you as you move up and is not required.

I do not like iron clad build rules as it depends on many things.
One big issue is the level. At emperor your second citizen is born unhappy. This is not the case at Warlord. This means I can aviod the need for MP's for a bit. At Demi I would often have to keep my first warrior home to prevent anarchy. At warlord, I can send it out to scout. If I have a lux hooked up soon, I can get by with one unit for defense for a time.

So do I have a lux in the city view that will soon be hooked up and making some happiness? Do I have any food bonus tiles in the radius? Any many other considerations.

So I would likely make warrior warrior and then see what was managed by the worker. If I have citizens on a 2 shield tile and a food bonus tile, I would probably make either a granary or settler.

I have not played a warlord game in some time, but it occurs to me that I could take big liberties. I could maybe get two camps going quickly and crank up warriors to upgrade and run over the neighbors. I could choose to expand very fast and then annex them.

Do you have the 4000bc save? Look in the auto folder. Send it if you have it.