16-01-2004 18:51									#1
	Chemical Winston Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

What do you think of the oldwarbaby Winson Churchill, regarding his enthusiasm for the use of chemical weapons against the 'savages' of Mesopotamia (now known as Iraq) in the last centuary. Is he a war-criminal who got away with it, or a glorious hero who understood the lesser value of brown-peasant-humanity when measured against the greater needs of the British Empire?

	16-01-2004 18:53									#2
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ps- this is the guy here.

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	16-01-2004 18:57									#3
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He was a bit of a git when it came to that kind of thing.

	16-01-2004 19:00									#4
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And that's not churchill, this is him:

	16-01-2004 19:01									#5
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quote: Originally posted by MikeH And that's not churchill, this is him:

Will he make a cameo appearance in your band's next video?

	16-01-2004 19:06									#6
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I have to admit, he did make scary movies.

	16-01-2004 20:16									#7
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It was not illegal to use chemical weapons until some time after WW1

	16-01-2004 20:30									#8
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Oh, alright. That makes it OK then.

	16-01-2004 20:34									#9
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In my estimation chemcial weapons should have never been classified as WOMD in the first place.

Smoke em' if you got em.

	16-01-2004 20:51									#10
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quote: Originally posted by MikeH Oh, alright. That makes it OK then.

Well, it just made its as lawful and 'OK' as more traditional methods of killing hostiles in war, like blasting them into small bits.

	16-01-2004 22:11									#11
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quote: Originally posted by problem_child What do you think of the oldwarbaby Winson Churchill, regarding his enthusiasm for the use of chemical weapons against the 'savages' of Mesopotamia (now known as Iraq) in the last centuary. Is he a war-criminal who got away with it, or a glorious hero who understood the lesser value of brown-peasant-humanity when measured against the greater needs of the British Empire?

By modern standards, he's a war criminal.

	16-01-2004 22:44									#12
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Thats it, dig him up and then fry him. But only after he is tried at the Hague.

	16-01-2004 23:16									#13
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Sorry. He's unfit to plead.

	16-01-2004 23:21									#14
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By our standards, he's a war criminal.

	16-01-2004 23:28									#15
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In 100 years time, maybe George Bush will be considered a war criminal

	16-01-2004 23:30									#16
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You mean still, right?

	16-01-2004 23:48									#17
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His actions in carpet bombing German cities indicates is proclivities to target civilians for terrorism purposes.

Today, he would stand side-by-side with Saddam on the dock.

	17-01-2004 00:25									#18
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You can't put early 20th century issues into today's moral standards because they are incompatible.

	17-01-2004 00:37									#19
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whoever said Churchill was a nice guy in the first place was a fool. The good die young, but the great and the evil live on forever.

	17-01-2004 01:07									#20
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quote: Originally posted by The Andy-Man whoever said Churchill was a nice guy in the first place was a fool. The good die young, but the great and the evil live on forever.

Thats a bit harsh on Churchill, the man was a product of his time and at that time using chemical warfare was not illegal.

As Viceroy said, in 100 years, even if the end result of Bushes actions turns out for the good, his methods will probally be deplored

	17-01-2004 01:23									#21
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Churchill won his wars (with a little help). The winners make the rules and write the history books.

	17-01-2004 01:27									#22
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quote: Originally posted by reds4ever Thats a bit harsh on Churchill, the man was a product of his time and at that time using chemical warfare was not illegal. As Viceroy said, in 100 years, even if the end result of Bushes actions turns out for the good, his methods will probally be deplored

I fully agree with you, but it dson't detract from the fact he was not a nice man by the standards of any era.

	17-01-2004 01:32									#23
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Sometimes it takes a bastard.

	17-01-2004 01:44									#24
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Exactly. That's why he had great public support in the war, and was voted out by a landslide in '45. As soon as the bombs stopped falling, the electorate wanted leaders to build a better future. Hello Clement Attlee.

	17-01-2004 01:45									#25
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Wasn't he co-inventor of concentration camps in the Boer war? The Germans liked that invention.

Churchill was a great leader by the standards of his time, but if he lived today he would be considered a pathetic drunkard with a big mouth. And a war criminal. Perhaps something like Boris Jeltsin but with vastly better language skills.

There was a debate on Swedish talk radio yesterday if he really deserved the Nobel Prize in literature and most debaters thought he was choosen only due to the lack of other candidates that year. But no one could of course dispute that he created loads of witty oneliners that are still in use and has been translated to other languages.

	17-01-2004 03:11									#26
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Hell, in 100 years, everyone on apolyton might be claiifed a vile criminal for using harsh words.

	17-01-2004 03:14									#27
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the use of submarines has changed as well. Once were more restricted. There is some useful debate to say that it may even be reasonable to allow subs with deck guns to strafe life rafts.

	17-01-2004 03:33									#28
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quote: Originally posted by TCO There is some useful debate to say that it may even be reasonable to allow subs with deck guns to strafe life rafts.

I'd like to hear THAT debate!

	17-01-2004 03:52									#29
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quote: Originally posted by reds4ever I'd like to hear THAT debate!

There was an article and have been letters about it in USNI Proceedings.

	17-01-2004 03:56									#30
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I thought some subs had machine guns on their conning tower. Did you mean like turrets or something?

quote: Originally posted by Chemical Ollie Wasn't he co-inventor of concentration camps in the Boer war? The Germans liked that invention.

Afaik those camps were not designed to kill people. People did die of illness, but measures were taken to stop it.