20-01-2004 16:47									#31
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Firstly, in response to Ravagon's queries:

I have tried to implement the role of the Indians extensively in the game. There was heavy consultation of the Barbarian Paper, but I believed I achieved my acquired goal. Expect to see barbarian uprisings of braves and cavalry. If you open a goody hut, you might find a new settlement that has grown large enough to be incorporated as a town... or you might be attacked by a horde of Indians angry at the violation of their territory!

Both the CSA and USA already have braves (fast scout/raiding unit) generated by events at Indian encampments (airbases). To reflect the fact that the CSA had better relations with the tribes, they receive braves more frequently. In addition, if they carry out a successful invasion of New Mexico, they will get the opportunity to align with Geronimo and his warriors.

Oops... gotta run. More later.

	20-01-2004 17:32									#32
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Sounds (and looks) very good!!

Just to be sure: it'll be under MPGE, I hope??

	20-01-2004 18:12									#33
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Yes Cyrion, it will be MGE.

With regard to slaves: they are a cheap (40 shields) settler-type unit that only the CSA can build. The engineer that every civ can use costs 100 shields. The CSA also possess the Institute of Slavery (Hoover Dam) which greatly increases their limited industrial capabilities (but still not enough to make them on par with the USA). I have decided to have the British in the war from the very start (in the book they entered the war on the promise that the CSA would free its slaves when it concluded). In the game the player will have the option of researching Manumission, the effect of which is to make the slave unit and the Institute of Slavery obsolete. To replace the latter the CSA can then build the 'black labour' improvement, which is far cheaper to maintain than the power plants the USA will rely on. As a sweetener to research Manumission, the CSA can build the Foreign Aid wonder (Adam Smith's) to represent the sway of world opinion in their direction.

General Custer will indeed start out in St. Louis with those confounded contraptions! Whether he waits around long enough for them to catch up once he moves out is a different story...

Fairline, thanks for the graphics. The're just what I need. I especially like the middle unit in the second row - in the book not all of the Confederate soldiers have received the new uniforms yet, so the mis-matched uniform will serve perfectly for Southern Volunteers. I believe that the Camel Riders wore the same uniform as the rest of the army. I really like the second CSA flag too.

Sarsstock, thanks for the graphic. It looks good! Not too sure about the oil rigs myself. The unit I'm currently using for a gatling gun is the one from v2.0 of the River War.

	20-01-2004 20:11									#34
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I must say that this one looks very interesting indeed

	20-01-2004 21:03									#35
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Hmmmm.... thats an interesting idea to work Manumission into the storyline. As long as its made critical to any CSA victory. I can't wait to play as the British, hopefully I can have better luck in Montana than the actual Brits had in the book. It was Montana where Custer and Roosevelt had their famous disagrement right?

	20-01-2004 23:59									#36
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Sarsstock, that's one thing I'm worried about. Would people be willing to lose the Institute of Slavery wonder in return for the Foreign Aid wonder? Could people please share their thoughts on whether they think I've made the manusmission advance attractive enough for the Confederate player?

	21-01-2004 01:30									#37
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Well, thats the kind of question only playtesting can answer. If it doesn't work, another option would be to have a cash bonus, say 1000 gold or whatever for researching Manumission. Other than that, you may have to have it "givin" to the CSA in events. Other than that, I have no other ideas.

	21-01-2004 01:53									#38
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You could make the tech that makes Slavery obsolete part of an important tech path, wich means that the player has no choice but to research it if he wants to get some advanced techs...

He then would but have the choice of the time when he does it!

	21-01-2004 03:39									#39
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Got a bit carried away with these, and ended up replacing the units in Nemo's ACW

Our_Man: some of these may be of some use to you hopefully; I guess you can pick and choose the butternut CSA troopers. I've left the generals in grey as they didn't wear butternut in the Civil War, but I guess I could recolour them if you like.

I've still got to finish the Custer pic, and I may have a go at the Gatling gun and monitor if you would like. Are there any other US personality units?

Attachment: fairline acw.gif
This has been downloaded 169 time(s).

	21-01-2004 04:20									#40
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I'm tempted to expand my units list just to get all those fantastic graphics into play!

Fairline, once again my hat is off to you. The graphics there are more than adequate for my purposes. Jeb Stuart and Stonewall Jackson are wonderful. If you could re-colour them in butternut it would be great, but they would definitely do as they are now. Camel Riders and CSA Cavalry are just what I needed, I also like the USA/CSA troops in different firing positions. One question however: what are the two units (there's one for the CSA and USA) in the funny looking pants?

The only other US historical figure in the scenario besides Custer is Teddy Roosevelt. At the moment I'm using the 4th graphic on the 5th row for him. There's no need for a gatling gun I think - I'm using your excellent one from the River War. If you could conjure up a monitor though that would be really handy. Thanks again.

	21-01-2004 04:32									#41
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quote: Originally posted by our_man .. One question however: what are the two units (there's one for the CSA and USA) in the funny looking pants?

They are volunteer regiments (15th Pennsylvania and 2nd New York, it says in my source pics) that were dressed as Zouaves (French colonial infantry who wore Turkish/N. African uniforms). At this time, the US was heavily influenced by French military uniforms and many of the volunteer rehiments raised in 1861-2 wore versions of Zouave costume. The CSA did the same: the bloke on the 2nd row is a Louisiana Tiger, a CSA volunteer regiment raised in New Orleans, apparently.

I'll have a go at the monitor

	21-01-2004 04:37									#42
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Here's a pic of the Zouave costume:

Attachment: us zouave.jpg
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	21-01-2004 04:40									#43
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So that's where MC Hammer got his inspiration from.

	21-01-2004 04:40									#44
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Totally amazing work on display here!

	21-01-2004 04:41									#45
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quote: Originally posted by our_man So that's where MC Hammer got his inspiration from.

Sadly, unlike those chaps, MCH was not mown down with cannon fire!

	21-01-2004 04:54									#46
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ROFL!

It sems you can get an action figure of the voluminous-panted master of sh1te elevator-rap. I see what you mean, Our-man!

I like the idea of an MC Hammer / cannon-ball interface Curt

Attachment: dick.jpg
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	21-01-2004 06:07									#47
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Did the CSA really have camel riders? I didn't know that. Wow, and I thought I knew almost everything about the civil war. And isn't it funny how fast an alternate civil war discussion can become a "killing MCH with a cannon discusion"? LOL

Last edited by Sarsstock on 21-01-2004 at 08:03

	21-01-2004 15:38									#48
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I don't know about the CSA having Camel Riders in the Civil War, but in How Few Remain the force that Jeb Stuart leads into Chihuahua and later New Mexico have camels, which prove to be very successful against US cavalry.

	21-01-2004 17:49									#49
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Camelry was better suited as mounted infantry than pure cavalry. From what I've read the camel is slower and less maneuverable than a horse during a charge. Somewhat bigger target, too. Perhaps you could reflect that with the af/df values.

Cyrion's got the right idea. Make Emancipation a vital tech. Assign it or downstream techs as the preqs for really vital units or WoW's (if WoW's aren't objectives).

Fairline, did you get that MCH 'plate' from Osprey?

	22-01-2004 01:51									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Boco Fairline, did you get that MCH 'plate' from Osprey?

er... I'm not sure why I chose to share that pic with you Boco; I just thought we all needed reminding just how stupid MC Hammer's big pants really were

Here's Custer:

	22-01-2004 16:38									#51
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Curt's Trivia Time!

I read that the infamous Custer's trademark long yellow hair was
a bit of a myth at little bighorn, as was his so-called 'last stand'.

Actually, head lice were rife in such rough and ready conditions,
and Custer, like the rest of his men, had a rather close-shaven head.

Also, he died almost at the start of the battle, experts have deducted, via an unlucky arrow or shot to the face.

Kind of ruins the hero-trip, but I guess an angry populace of the time
had to make best of a foolhardy commander and a humiliating defeat.

	22-01-2004 18:25									#52
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Our_man, I suppose you know there are already three scenarios based in "How few Remain", designed by Timothy Fowlkes.
http://www.civfanatics.com/civ2scenind.shtml

Anyway, yours look better

	22-01-2004 21:16									#53
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Fairline, brilliant work on that Custer unit. I think I'll probably go for the mounted one.

Interesting Curt. When I started this scenario I realised how little I know about 19th century American history. It's a fascinating period; I hope to have the time to read into it a bit more deeply.

jasev, I've already seen that scenario, thanks. It isn't really what I had in mind - North America seems far too populated. I'm trying to give the player in my scenario the chance to experience both the futility of trench warfare in the eastern part of the country, while also allowing successful cavalry campaigns to be waged over a long distance in the mid-west. For this reason, there will be no 'railroads' par se. Roads have been changed to railroads and have a movement cost of 1/4.

	22-01-2004 22:59									#54
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Yes, this is a frontier war basically, the previous version of the scenario wasn't able to convey the feel of a real frontier war. This looks like it will do just that. Curt, you say Custer didn't have long golden hair? I'm sure I've seen photographs of him with his locks always spilling out under his hat cavalry hat.

Just a beautifull unit though, it really is.

	23-01-2004 00:42									#55
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Thanks He must have had his hair trimmed on campaign Curt, as all the photos I've seen of Custer show him with long blonde hair as Sarsstock says. By the look of him, and according to contemporary descriptions, he was an incredibly vain bloke.

Anyhoo, here's a quick-and-dirty USS Monitor. Our_Man, I can have a go at the CSA equivalent, USS Virginia, if you have slots for both US and CS ironclads and you think this one is up to scratch. The Virginia looked quite a bit different and was an ironclad ram converted from the US frigate Merrimac, rather than a low-freeboard turret ironclad like the US designs.

Attachment: uss monitor.gif
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	23-01-2004 00:56									#56
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The monitor's perfect fairline.

I've no shortage of unit slots so I could easily accomodate a separate graphic for the Confederate version.

	23-01-2004 02:19									#57
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Fairline you've done it again. Also, Our_Man would you be able to post the cities.gif on the thread? If you could I might be able to tweak afew of the city graphics to look more aligned with the hex square, with your permision of course!

	23-01-2004 02:30									#58
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quote: Originally posted by Sarsstock Yes, this is a frontier war basically, the previous version of the scenario wasn't able to convey the feel of a real frontier war. This looks like it will do just that. Curt, you say Custer didn't have long golden hair? I'm sure I've seen photographs of him with his locks always spilling out under his hat cavalry hat.

Posed photos are different from the reality of the frontline.

Especially in the 1800s.

I am sure many military men do not wear their parade uniforms when wallowing in the muck either!

	23-01-2004 04:01									#59
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Here's the Confederate ironclad ram that fought with the USS Monitor at Hampton Roads, the CSS Virginia.

If there's anything else you could use, let me know Our_Man

Attachment: css virginia.gif
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	23-01-2004 04:11									#60
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HOLLY SH*#!!

Fairline I have to say its a crying shame your not getting paid for these. Dude you are truley a Civ II artist! Say our_man, ya think you'd ever be interested in making the sequal to this book "The Great War: The American Front"? If so I'd love to help out!