19-01-2004 18:58									#61
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi To God, everything happens before him. he may see your actions in the future, but that does not mean he controls them.

But God knowing my future actions invalidates my free will. I may think I have free will but it's a falsehood. If God has seen a future action of mine that involves me getting up in five minutes to make a cup of tea then, for all purposes, I have already gotten up and made the tea and I will always get up and make the tea. Knowledge of the future cannot co-exist with true free will. Its like if you or I were able to step outside of the normal, linear flow of time. Say we traveled to the past and went to Dallas on the day of JFK's assassination. President Kennedy would believe he had free will and go about his business but would end up dead. To us, his free will is just an illusion caused by inferior knowledge since we know something (ie, the future) that he cannot know. Likewise, our free will cannot actually be free will if there is an entity out there (ie, God) who knows our own future.

	19-01-2004 19:32									#62
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quote: Originally posted by Shi Huangdi Says Mr. Lithuanian.

Speer is Lithuanian?

	19-01-2004 19:34									#63
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Half Lithuanian. So I geuss only half the balls go into the basket

	19-01-2004 19:37									#64
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 Half Lithuanian. So I geuss only half the balls go into the basket

Which Athens club is your fav? You have what, 3-4 serious clubs in one city?

	19-01-2004 19:47									#65
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I'm Panathinaikos But I've stopped watching the matches since the subscription private chanels took the rights. When I followed them though I think we had done pretty well we had like won 4 european championships in a row But I have no idea what happens now.

	19-01-2004 19:56									#66
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quote: Originally posted by Saras Speer is Lithuanian?

And half Lebanese. And at least half black.

	19-01-2004 21:16									#67
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 I'm Panathinaikos

DAMN YOU! DAMN YOU AND YOUR PANATHINAIKOS!!!

	19-01-2004 21:21									#68
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why?! something has happened and i don't know it

	19-01-2004 21:24									#69
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They beat zalgiris the week before last.

	19-01-2004 21:29									#70
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Sorry At least I hope that didn't mean you were disqualified or anything.

	19-01-2004 21:34									#71
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BTW I'm a bit pissed off at the way basketball clubs don't have so many players of their own country anymore. It's all because of the "community (EU) initiative". Perhaps you'll find out soon enough too Now it's all about the $$$. We have a filthy rich president who spends millions in this team and buys the best world players. Money talks and makes the difference. You have Greek or Italian or whatever basketball clubs with only one greek or italian in the basic 5. Meanwhile national teams wither. Well not the Lithuanian one as you've recently demonstrated

Last edited by Bereta_Eder on 19-01-2004 at 21:40

	19-01-2004 21:48									#72
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quote: Originally posted by Whaleboy So what actually is devil worship? What are its fundamental elements, activities, philosophies? Is it just a harmless bit of gothic fun or a serious religion?

Varies, but generally speaking devil worship is the inverse of Christianity... as in "don't love God" and "hate your neighbour".

However, don't get devil worship mixed up with Animist beliefs like Voodoo and Wicca. They are very different.

Personally, I'm an unorthodox Voodoo practitioner, which boils down to "I believe in God (Grand Met to the Caribean branches) but there's other beings as well - less powerful, but more immediate to humanity".

I don't intend to talk further about these beliefs, so don't bother asking. It is for each and everyone to find their own path - as long as it's not the path of least resistance I'm not fussed.

	19-01-2004 21:59									#73
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 Sorry At least I hope that didn't mean you were disqualified or anything.

No, but Sabonis has bronchitis and will not play for at least 2 weeks. And we need to win ALL of the remaining games iirc.

	19-01-2004 22:00									#74
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Back on topic - is basketball worship a form of satanism?

	19-01-2004 22:00									#75
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Sabonis still plays? He was God! Very good player.

	19-01-2004 22:03									#76
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 Sabonis still plays? He was God! Very good player.

He still is God. He's LKL (lithuanian basketball league) MVP, one of the top Euroleague players and a demigod figure in Lithuanian popular mind.

	19-01-2004 22:04									#77
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quote: Originally posted by Saras Back on topic - is basketball worship a form of satanism?

Well some players appear to have made a pact with the devil

	19-01-2004 22:05									#78
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quote: Originally posted by Saras He still is God. He's LKL (lithuanian basketball league) MVP, one of the top Euroleague players and a demigod figure in Lithuanian popular mind.

How old is he?
Of course he is very well known in Greece BTW.

	19-01-2004 22:06									#79
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quote: Originally posted by Saras He still is God...

Do you worship him?

	19-01-2004 22:07									#80
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 Well some players appear to have made a pact with the devil

Some fans as well

	19-01-2004 22:10									#81
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yeah must have been a hell of a final. unfortunately I missed it

	19-01-2004 22:10									#82
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 How old is he? Of course he is very well known in Greece BTW.

He's 39.

	19-01-2004 22:16									#83
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He's also NOW euroleagues ranking mvp,

http://www.euroleague.net/stats/sta...=E03&fase=RS031

Surely the work of the devil himself.

	19-01-2004 22:22									#84
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quote: Originally posted by The Mad Viking To discredit Wicca based on lack of continuity, you must also be willing to discredit modern Christianity... ...the discontinuous leaps of ideology from OT to NT, from Jesus' teachings to Paul's writings, and from NT to Catholic dogma are truly staggering... religion=dodgy no need to single out Wicca...

Christianity gets extra credibility on the grounds that it clearly wasn't botched together within the last hundred years by a bloke who wanted to see what was inside women's knickers.

Then again, I'm no more of a Christian than I am a Wiccan.

	19-01-2004 22:23									#85
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That old devil
Nice site.

	19-01-2004 23:53									#86
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Laz-

True, but it was botched and rebotched so many times, that evens things up...

...and what, may I ask, do you have against looking inside a woman's knickers???

:P

	20-01-2004 01:29									#87
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Nothing at all. I simply fail to see why it's necessary to start a religion in order to do so.

	20-01-2004 02:45									#88
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Near where I grew up in the hills of Ohio, about 30 years ago, there was a satanic ritual where they skinned a baby alive.

Satanism is practiced in some of these backwoods places, although I don't know the general magnitude of the faithful or the specifics of what they believe in.

	20-01-2004 04:37									#89
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Starchild: Sorry, you're still not making sense to me. Are you insisting that you should have the power to surprise god? JFK still has free will in your example, he just has no particular reason to decide to behave differently unless you intervene somehow. You seem to be describing a function of time more than anything else. Is this like that "if a tree falls in the woods" question? I never got that either.

And kindly don't associate Catholic dogma with modern christianity in its entirety, Viking. The OT and NT are dramatically different, I'll grant you, though according to Christ that's the whole point. What's the disparity you mention between the Gospels and Paul?

	21-01-2004 15:03									#90
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 yeah must have been a hell of a final. unfortunately I missed it

Prayers to the Dark Master have not gone unheeded