17-01-2004 21:30									#1
	Sympathy for the devil Remove this text

So what actually is devil worship? What are its fundamental elements, activities, philosophies?

Is it just a harmless bit of gothic fun or a serious religion?

	18-01-2004 00:28									#2
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It can be either, from what I gather. Just like "Christianity" encompasses devout believers, lip-servicers, and those guys with slicked-back hair who ask God to remove their sins so they can cast the first stone. The only Satanist I've ever known was a gay teenager who really hated christians and called himself a satan-worshipper for spite. Or something like that. But my mom volunteers in pastoral counseling, and some of her peers get clients who did the whole ritual-gang-rape thing a long time ago and want it to go away.

Obviously it's a highly reactive religion, based as it is on endorsing another faith's idea of evil, and so I never bothered to learn more except to determine that Wiccans are not the same as Satanists. Good thing too, considering how quickly Wicca is growing among teenagers.

	18-01-2004 00:39									#3
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the growth of Wicca probably has alot to do with teen culture atm, as for satan worship, i think it goes on the beleif of no after life, and thus you can do what the hell you want.

	18-01-2004 00:53									#4
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its just stupidity to get re-actions out of people.

and i dare anyone to find an ethnic minority who is a satanist...

	18-01-2004 00:58									#5
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Want his phone number, AS?

	18-01-2004 00:59									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Albert Speer and i dare anyone to find an ethnic minority who is a satanist...

Perhaps you'd like to come to Utah then? Often times when I go to the boostore in the mall (Sigh) I will find many hispanics reading the Satanic Bible.

	18-01-2004 01:00									#7
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you all know **** like this is a white thing. you never see no black or spanish people doing this kind of ****.

	18-01-2004 01:00									#8
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They have a bible???

	18-01-2004 01:06									#9
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Sure they do. It's five thick volumes long already, and J.K. Rowling's working like mad to make more.

But yeah, they probably have several. They'll print anything that will get an audience.

	18-01-2004 01:07									#10
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satanists are a weird lot, nearly all are college kids who think they are cool because the stab themselves with their compass

	18-01-2004 01:08									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Whaleboy So what actually is devil worship? What are its fundamental elements, activities, philosophies? Is it just a harmless bit of gothic fun or a serious religion?

There's many variations of Satanism. The so-called official Satanic Church was started by one Anton LaVey sometime in the early 60's, mostly as a mockery of Christian rites and beliefs and as an attention-getter for an egotist like LaVey. Their rites range from Black Masses to Sexual Magick.

For the most part, a lot of satanic "philosophy" (for lack of a better term) is similar to libertarian tenets- self-sufficiency and a "dont tread on me" attitude.

	18-01-2004 01:08									#12
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Anyway, few people actually practice satanism with any seriousness. Most satanists are teenagers, and most satanists arent satanists.
Satanism is a very bad religion. They promote all sorts of bad things including rape and murder, and they believe that there is no problem at all with getting revenge on someone else while wiccans believe in teh three-fold law.
Do not be around satanists whether they are serious about it or not. If they have participated in the rituals they have left themselves open to psychic attack and you don't want to have to endure one of those.

	18-01-2004 01:17									#13
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* Theben puts AS on ignore list

	18-01-2004 01:17									#14
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quote: Originally posted by The Andy-Man the growth of Wicca probably has alot to do with teen culture atm, as for satan worship, i think it goes on the beleif of no after life, and thus you can do what the hell you want.

Satanism was largely slung together by a few middle-aged men in the 20th century in order to get women naked around them.

Wicca, on the other hand, was largely slung together by a few middle-aged men in the 20th century in order to get women naked around them.

	18-01-2004 01:19									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Albert Speer you all know **** like this is a white thing. you never see no black or spanish people doing this kind of ****.

Look up "Santeria" or "Voodoo" you unbelievably moronic little toad.

	18-01-2004 01:27									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Albert Speer you all know **** like this is a white thing. you never see no black or spanish people doing this kind of ****.

Says Mr. Lithuanian.

	18-01-2004 01:28									#17
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Strictly speaking, I believe there were quite a few middle-aged women involved in the formation of Wicca. There's a growing trend of "protestant" wiccans, so to speak, on the internet, who insist on following the more male-oriented "Bardic" traditions.

(I googled Wicca when my brother's girlfriend joined a coven. She quit after he threatened to kick her out of the house-she made the mistake of inviting him to one of their meetings-so I've gone back to trying not to think about it all.)

	18-01-2004 01:35									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Elok Strictly speaking, I believe there were quite a few middle-aged women involved in the formation of Wicca. There's a growing trend of "protestant" wiccans, so to speak, on the internet, who insist on following the more male-oriented "Bardic" traditions.

Gerald Gardner and Alex Sanders were the main driving force behind Wicca. Very, very keen on the nudity angle. Oh yes.

	18-01-2004 01:47									#19
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If you go beyond the teenaged sociopaths and fantasists, a different and more thoughtful form of Satanism can be found. The reasoning is this-

If God is omnipotent, what is Satan? How can this implacable enemy of God exist? The only rational explanation is that Satan represents another aspect of God- Satan is God's other face.

While God represents the authoritarian taskmaster laying down the rules and demanding obedience, Satan is the paragon of free thought and action. Satan's sole commandment (to paraphrase Crowley) is "Do what thou wouldst shall be the whole of the law". In other words- think for yourself.

To such people, Satanism is the final word in empowerment and self-liberation. That doesn't mean that they're all a bunch of screaming murderous perverts- many sects (such as LaVey's) encourage strict self-control as a marker of empowerment and strength.

	18-01-2004 05:15									#20
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There's only one group of true Satanists, I believe- the ancient middle-eastern religion of Yezidism. They believe their god Shaitan who is both the embodiment of good and of evil and in the nature of a peacock and who created the world from a pearl. Or something.

	18-01-2004 06:12									#21
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Didn't LaVey eventually renounce the church he started and become a fundamentalist Christian?

	18-01-2004 06:34									#22
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there's a group of satanists that do not see satan as a conscious entity, merely as a pagan life principle... based on the experience of the senses and the attainment of pleasure in the here and now.

	18-01-2004 07:06									#23
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With Yezidism, apparently they say they don't worship Satan they just respect him and want to get in his good graces since it makes sense since Allah is more forgiving than Shaitain.

	18-01-2004 09:37									#24
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Wicca is not satanism- its more like old fashioned paganism, which is not satanism.

Voodoo and Santeria are not satanism either.

	18-01-2004 11:04									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Albert Speer you all know **** like this is a white thing. you never see no black or spanish people doing this kind of ****.

You mean like being gay is a white thing, and straight people never get AIDS?

	18-01-2004 11:58									#26
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Nope for those of us who are true Wiccans it doesn't have anything to do with the Satanic church. LaVey wrote the Satanic Bible.

We hold true to the old ways...........similar to those of the Druids etc. We believe in Mother Earth and giving back to the earth and the great ritual, the king making, the right of the change of seasons....etc. Nothing to do with the worship of Satan.

	18-01-2004 12:46									#27
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Okay, here's something interesting I read somewhere.

The first so-called "Satanic Cult" was actually the immediate precursor of the Illuminati; a group of scientists and philosophers who spoke out against the oppression of the church in scientific matters. As such, they were prosecuted by the church and labeled Satanic such that they would essentially be outlaws. This worked to some extent, and the church (being crotchety old bastards) repeated the process on several other splinter organizations they had a beef with. Eventually, people/groups began calling themselves Satanic if they were anti-Catholic, and from that spread all of the "I kill babies and sacrifice goats" nonsense.

I haven't verified this, but it seems like a good theory.

	18-01-2004 14:08									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Tiamat Nope for those of us who are true Wiccans it doesn't have anything to do with the Satanic church. LaVey wrote the Satanic Bible. We hold true to the old ways...........similar to those of the Druids etc. We believe in Mother Earth and giving back to the earth and the great ritual, the king making, the right of the change of seasons....etc. Nothing to do with the worship of Satan.

Calling it "old ways" is on dodgy ground. The fact is that we know next to nothing about what Druidism entailed- what the gullible now call Druidism is a 19th/20th Century fabrication. The Romans deliberately annihilated it because it scared them.

The Romans were great ones for assimilating foreign religions, but they wouldn't touch Druidism with a 20 foot pole. My guess is that it was an astonishingly violent and bloody cult- so bespattered in gore that even the pragmatic Romans shied away from it.

	18-01-2004 14:42									#29
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The Romans liked their blood. Druidism was too close to monotheism for the Romans to be able to cope with. Thus they destroyed it.

	18-01-2004 19:12									#30
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Er, I thought the druids were problematic to the Romans for their practice of human sacrifice? That's just what I read in Larry Gonick, mind you, so I am talking out my rear here, but Gonick is usually pretty reliable.