22-01-2004 03:43									#1
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quote: Greetings to our Comrades in the Hive. We wondered what be the state of play regarding our earlier soundings and bird communications and exchange of techs or assistance. If you don't have HEC or Non Linear we would appreciate Doc: Loyalty, for defensive purposes. Also this: We can probe your enemy Roze in 4 turns. We would be looking to steal either HEC or Non Linear. Either of these I think would be of interest to you. However Roze also has Biogenetics , which we do not have ( we had hoped to do without it) and it would be a waste to end up stealing this tech. Upon success we would forward the stolen tech to you. In what ever is the situation please advise. Cap'n Hercules PS This message also to Hunghu

Discuss.

	22-01-2004 07:58									#2
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From the looks of the CyCon paper, PEACE has been wiped out. Exactly what is their military capability?

Should we even deal with them? The CyCon might be the new "kid on the block" and if we deal with them, will we upset the CyCon?

My main concern is if by aiding PEACE, are we going to taint ourselves and stab ourselves in the foot in the future?

	22-01-2004 10:03									#3
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Voltaire, I think you need to let them know that we are not interested in getting HEC or Impact (since we already have +3 armor units and will soon have SFF (+6 attack)). I already suggest them to directly contact the Drones for HEC and/or SFF. If they can get the Drones support them then we can give them loyalty. Otherwise they might not be saved anyways. As for upset the CCs, I don't really think that matters much now, since the CCs seems to be already planning on treating us as enemies. The most important thing seems to me is to stay in the good side of the Drones. We would be pretty hard pressed if we have to face two enemies especially if the Drones would hold the military techs from us.

	22-01-2004 10:15									#4
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quote: Originally posted by HongHu Voltaire, I think you need to let them know that we are not interested in getting HEC or Impact (since we already have +3 armor units and will soon have SFF (+6 attack)). I already suggest them to directly contact the Drones for HEC and/or SFF. If they can get the Drones support them then we can give them loyalty. Otherwise they might not be saved anyways. As for upset the CCs, I don't really think that matters much now, since the CCs seems to be already planning on treating us as enemies. The most important thing seems to me is to stay in the good side of the Drones. We would be pretty hard pressed if we have to face two enemies especially if the Drones would hold the military techs from us.

Exactly as I was alluding to, Comrade Hong Hu.

	25-01-2004 13:53									#5
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Message sent to PEACE at the Chairman's request:

quote: Honorable Cap'n Hercules: The Hive has heard of the great suffering your people have endured at the hands of your enemies. Your terrible plight at the hands of the CyCon was truly terrible. Therefore, the Hiverian government wishes to bring the people of PEACE under it's protection. If you rush a colony pod in a base near the Hiveran homeland, and build a new base near us, we will protect it to the last. We will send PEACE any tech we possess that you may want. Lastly, we will assist you in your effort to retake your homeland. The CyCon shall soon taste the fury of the Hive! Please, make your decision soon. This is an all-or-nothing deal. Should you accept, you will be expected to join with the Hive and our brother Drones as a junior member of the great Hive-Drone permi-pact. We await your reply. ~Octavian X

	25-01-2004 23:31									#6
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>_<
Dammit RESCIND that. RESCIND it!!!
We did NOT have a poll regarding this action. I highly DISENCOURAGE this action.

Whatever we want from The Angels we'll get ourselves in a couple of turns.
As for the PEACE? They're nothing to us now.
The CyCon once again seem friendly as they're offering us a trade... and I think we might accept!

If they want love from the Drones let them ask the Drones. I've given up on the PEACE project.
Do not, I repeat, DO NOT give them Doc:Loy!!!
DO NOT!!!
WE REPEAT, DO NOT GIVE THEM DOC:LOY!!!
Why?
The CyCon will take that when they conquer the enemy bases.
This puts them all too close to Planetary Economics and the AV.

I want that SP for myself.
The Hive.
I'll be DAMNED if I let it fall into the hands of the Cybernetic Consciousness - or if I let you put them one step closer.

	26-01-2004 01:14									#7
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I agree with Enigma that any major diplomatic action should be proposed inside Hive and gets approval from the team before they are sent out. Polls would be preferable, if time is limited, at least post here and see if you could get some feedback before contacting the other faction.

I wouldn't blame Comrade Oct for taking initiatives though, just that we probably should set out some steps to ensure the consistency within the team.

	26-01-2004 01:24									#8
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Everyone calm down and don’t get your panties in a knot; the decision is far from final. I ordered the communication to be sent after a discussion with Kody on things; we really have not committed ourselves to anything. I was considering polling the issue, except that the matter was urgent enough to leave that go by, and also extenuating circumstances (which I will not reveal here, if anyone wants to know what they are ask over MSN) forced me to make a unilateral decision.

But yes, poll it if you want now. If it does not go through, then we will simply inform PEACE that I acted without democratic approval and the deal has been withdrawn by the People, not too hard eh?

	26-01-2004 01:51									#9
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sounds fine.

any way, it looks like a rely bad deal. considering the fact that (from the very litle i knwo) the PK's dont seem to be such a profitable allay and the techs my fall to CCs hands (which is of course very bad).

BTW how can i see the turn or get more details?
that way i beleabe , even with my disastrous expirience, i might be able to be a lilte more handy during devates....

	26-01-2004 02:07									#10
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download it from the main forum the turn tracking thread. In the zip file Enigma also included a save for the Hive before the end turn.

	26-01-2004 16:53									#11
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T_Ras:
1. Fix Typoes. This is not AOL, making typoes does not make you cool; it makes you look dumb.
2. PEACE are the Pirate's Expeditionary Armada of Chironian Explorers (or something like that), not the PKs.
I urge you to read about the game before making such comments.

Read the last 2 pages of the topped threads, and the entire topped threads in the DG menu.
It's a steep learning curve but I went from noob to turnplayer in like 3 turns.
Not to suggest you're anywhere near as quick as I am, but merely to suggest that it is possible.

	26-01-2004 21:08									#12
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Enigma, this is not the right way to talk to your teamates, no matter how familiar or not they are with the game. WE let you be the turn player, accepting that you may not make the best decisions. You seem to mistaken that this means you have become the grandest. You know arrogance may not make you look dumb, but it may very well make you look ignorant and stupid. Again check in your spell checker how "typoes" should be rightly spelled before your laugh at anybody else. And I'm sure you don't need me to remind you those occasions when our grand master also made spelling mistakes.

	26-01-2004 22:13									#13
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quote: Originally posted by HongHu Enigma, this is not the right way to talk to your teamates, no matter how familiar or not they are with the game.

Then I suggest you do something about it.

quote: WE let you be the turn player,

No. Kody let me be the turnplayer.
Dacole was the clear winner of that poll until Kody voiced his support.
Then I noted Micha was out, and hassled Dacole away, thus giving me power.

You DO know that, should I retire, the replacements are yourself, Jamski, and possibly Voltaire.
You will be overloaded, so you can't do the job.
So we're left with those 2 guys, who are much more suited to other matters, running the turn.
Why not have me run the turn?
My markedly hostile attitude may prevent me from doing too many interpersonal things, but I'm damn good at what I try hard at, and I try hard at playing the turns.

Why should my interpersonal attitude have any bearing on whether or not I'm a part of the team?
I have strengths and weaknesses, of course. A wise person would know that I have my uses, rather than discarding me based on illogical emotions.
I have neither the time nor the energy to reduce myself to taking residency in the slum of a city you call 'socially acceptable behaviour'. I am the judge of what I do, not you, and if you try to impose your stupid backwards-minded agendi upon me, I swear on my honour I will cut you down to rid the world of your foolishness.

quote: You seem to mistaken that this means you have become the grandest.

I was great of mind long before I had the power to use my mind.
Now, with power, and wisdom, I am able to fulfil my potential.

quote: You know arrogance may not make you look dumb, but it may very well make you look ignorant and stupid.

I'll say it again, I'm not arrogant. I'm a prodigial questioner frustrated at a world geared for ignorance.
Do you even hear me when I say that?
Geez it's like I point at a spot on the wall and tell me that I have an obsolete pointing arm...

quote: I'm sure you don't need me to remind you those occasions when our grand master also made spelling mistakes.

The problem isn't his (her?) fallibility, but rather, his (her?) indesire to repair this fallibility.
I'm not frustrated at stupidity, nor am I frustrated with ignorance. I'm frustrated with a world that is geared towards the value of ignorance (such that those who value questioning aren't treated fairly).
Now, if you'll excuse me, my quest for justice will not be stopped here, by you. Step aside or I will throw you aside.

	27-01-2004 00:46									#14
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Yea if you are so smart go look at the poll again see who let you be the turn player.

And if you are so smart show us how fast you can learn manners.

Throw me aside huh? Come on get on it.

	27-01-2004 01:17									#15
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well...i guess i would rather you had better manners, it is surely not nice to be resived like that. but each one with his won ideas, it is ok

	27-01-2004 01:50									#16
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quote: Originally posted by HongHu Yea if you are so smart go look at the poll again see who let you be the turn player.

IIRC Kody was going to play turns until he was removed,
then you were going to play turns until you declined,
then dacole was going to play turns until he ran off,
then I stepped up and said "Bring it on."
As a turnplayer I kick ass! Group work disgusts me, but being turnplayer is okay.
...And yes, I choose to be difficult interpersonally. Why? Frustration at many things, not limited to having to change myself for others (which I of course will not do).

I could use the whole bloody lot of you if I wanted to. Even Tassadar. But I choose not to because I consider it degrading to all individuals involved if we alter each other like some malfunctioning code.

quote: And if you are so smart show us how fast you can learn manners.

Nice try. If you are so interpersonally skilled, then let's see you work with a challenge like me.

quote: Throw me aside huh? Come on get on it.

Well I wouldn't say you were insignificant but as you stepped down from being CyCon ambassador you seem to get a lot less use than before.

	27-01-2004 02:00									#17
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I never claimed that I am "so interpersonally skilled" did I? Unlike some other people...

As for "work with a challenge like you", well guess what, you may feel you are important enough to be a challenge, others may think differently.

And I'm so glad that I'm a lot less use to you now.

	27-01-2004 03:50									#18
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So how about the PEACE communication, huh?

	27-01-2004 08:39									#19
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*sigh* I'll have to agree with Comrade Vander on this.

But rudeness IS the first sign of weakness....

	27-01-2004 14:11									#20
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quote: Originally posted by HongHu you may feel you are important enough to be a challenge, others may think differently.

Which I guess is my opinion of society.

quote: And I'm so glad that I'm a lot less use to you now.

Soon, the only person of use here to me will be myself.

	27-01-2004 14:16									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Frankychan But rudeness IS the first sign of weakness....

I'll give you that much.
I've become quite impatient and intolerant for such matters as 'dealing' with people. Now I'm plain antipathic on such matters.

Why? Because I'm sick to death of lowering myself to your level, that's why! I'm sick of being forced to subjugate myself to the will of others who understand so far less than I do.
I am quite through with undergoing a malfunction just so that other people can feel better.
Quite frankly I'm sick of your society and nigh sick of your species, and I'm frustrated because I haven't yet done too much about it.

But one day I will. And it will not be nice. I do not intend to be vengeful; just to rid the world of your problems. Then maybe I can sit alone, unmolested by the demons you create, and work on the demons of my own that have so craftily been infested in me.

Now please - I'm fighting a war on 3 fronts - with myself, with my 'allies', and with my enemies. It would be nice if some of you could **** off and let me deal with this my own way!
>_< I am -so- sick of this and am THIS close to going ballistic on everyone.

Yes it's a sign of weakness that my tolerance has snapped. I'm mortal. Point proven. But just because I'm mortal doesn't mean that I can't KICK ALL YOUR ASSES.

	27-01-2004 14:35									#22
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quote: Yes there IS right and wrong behaviors, Enigma.

I don't believe any of that drivel.
All I believe in is me, what I comprise, and what I must do.
I'd have hoped you'd figured that out by now.

quote: Human beings are social animals.

Yes, I'm a social animal too, who has been ****ed around by a bunch of other animals because I have a different coat pattern.
Not surprisingly, I've become hostile. So if these people will not accept who I am and my ways then why should I let them live?
Exactly. No reason at all.
Now all I want is the power to end this conflict and fell your species once and for all. Then maybe I can create something better after I've corrected myself.
Because, quite frankly, even my willpower has limits - and your foolish society keeps on testing them.

Why am I so resentful? Maybe because people don't respect who I am. Who am I? The values of questioning and determination.
But I waste my efforts trying to explain it to people who have neither the desire nor ability to understand.
So, I guess I'll do what I do, justify it to myself, and be damned with you all.
I no longer have any patience for others. The line has been crossed; No more Mr. Nice Guy.
(And F.Y.I. this online betrayal was indeed the last straw)

quote: If you choose to live in a society you better learn to obey the basic rules.

I didn't choose to be. I didn't choose to be a questioner; it happened naturally, and as part of being a questioner I try to solve problems of society. Some of those problems involve laws and so to solve those problems laws will be broken.
Now, also by no choice of my own these flaws exist.
The only 'choice' I make is either to be active and conflict with you all, or be passive and conflict with myself.
War on all sides of me, what do I choose?
I choose to fight. And for what I believe in, I might as well fight you.

quote: People don't go around killing people as they wish. And they don't go around insulting people as they wish either.

Enough of this. Believe what you will, but I will correct these problems once and for all by any and all means possible.
Consider this a state of vendetta against your collective.
You have been warned long enough; you did not listen. Now it is time to MAKE you listen.

quote: Plus since when being liked by another is important to you.

Respect is desired but not as desired as Justice.
Ironically maybe if I had been accepted then maybe I would not want such justice?
In any circumstance - to hell with people. I'm here for me now.
I am now all that matters.

	28-01-2004 03:07									#23
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From PEACE:

quote: Please advise which of your Ambassadors speaks for the Hive. We have received two messages : one from OctavianX and a contradictory one from Enigma. What is the position. Re Enigma's overtures are not designed to be welcoming and would appear to be designed to drive us into the hands of Cycon. Is that what you wish?

Someone has explaining to do, why was a communiqué sent to PEACE on behalf of the Hive without authorization from the Hive? I have of course corrected the mistake and informed PEACE of the true communiqué, but this hardly explains why a second one from Enigma was sent.

	28-01-2004 03:11									#24
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quote: Enough of this. Believe what you will, but I will correct these problems once and for all by any and all means possible. Consider this a state of vendetta against your collective. You have been warned long enough; you did not listen. Now it is time to MAKE you listen.

Dangerous melodramatic tedious sophistic rhetoric. I’d point out the irony but it is blindingly obvious.

	28-01-2004 03:35									#25
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That goes straight to my sig.

I do agree that we need to be very careful now. If we give tech to the Pirates, then that will be giving it to the CyCOn too - not to mention it may make them mad, and they have a mobilised army in the field right now.

-Jam

	28-01-2004 05:25									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Voltaire quote: Enough of this. Believe what you will, but I will correct these problems once and for all by any and all means possible. Consider this a state of vendetta against your collective. You have been warned long enough; you did not listen. Now it is time to MAKE you listen. Dangerous melodramatic tedious sophistic rhetoric. I?d point out the irony but it is blindingly obvious.

Voltaire,

Was this sent out to another faction by someone in the Hive?


Who?

Was that person authorized to speak for the Hive?

We need to confirm.


If this is true then:

Whoever did this is either dangerously unstable and a threat to the safety and well-being of the Hive, or worse a criminal traitor, intent on bringing on the Hive's downfall.

Can we repair the damage?

What are we doing to ensure it does not happen again?



Mead

	28-01-2004 05:48									#27
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Maniac has just sent a PM to me, HongHu and Voltaire :

quote: Enigma_Nova and Adaptive Economics? Hi Chairman Voltaire and Ambassadors HongHu and Jamski, (I don't know anymore who is supposed to be the official contact person, so I'll just send it to all three of you ) I've just heard the recent news that Enigma_Nova has been expelled from the Hive. Can I ask why or is it a purely internal matter? Also, recently Enigma_Nova offered to buy Adaptive Economics from us with as clause that we could keep the Planetary Energy Grid. I am wondering, is his proposal still supported by the current Hive leadership? Due to a beeline of our own that could be interrupted, we can't trade yet this year, but from next year on it should be possible to trade for AdapEcon. Friendly greetings, Maniac

Does that answer your question Mead? Enigma has taken matters into his own hands, so to speak.

-Jam

	29-01-2004 03:06									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Comrade Chairman Voltaire Dangerous melodramatic tedious sophistic rhetoric. I’d point out the irony but it is blindingly obvious.

quote: Originally posted by Comrade Ambassador Jamski That goes straight to my sig. I do agree that we need to be very careful now. If we give tech to the Pirates, then that will be giving it to the CyCOn too - not to mention it may make them mad, and they have a mobilised army in the field right now. -Jam

I have to agree with you. That's the first reply that I've seen here that really made me laugh.

	29-01-2004 03:56									#29
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Copycat

-Jam

	29-01-2004 04:19									#30
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Sorry, but I just couldn't help it. I got some pretty weird looks in the library after reading his reply, then yours.......what can I say? Great minds think alike.