22-01-2004 05:50									#1
	Paradox - Estate Tax and Reparations Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

One arguement for slavery reparations is that slaves could not pass along accumulated wealth to their descendents putting them at a disadvantage. Succeeding generations had a smaller or non-existent wealth base than the descendents of non-slaves who could inherit accumulated wealth. Is it not a paradox for people who make this arguement to want the elimination of inheritance with the state taking our wealth upon death or taxing estates even more heavily?

Or is this apparent paradox fictional since those on the left who make this arguement wrt reparations actually like the fact descendents of slaves had nothing to start out with and their complaint is that other people should have been treated like the descendents of slaves, i.e., the state should place us all in the position of coming out of slavery?

	22-01-2004 05:52									#2
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We should pay reparations to everyone.

	22-01-2004 05:53									#3
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Let's make it simpler, no one pays reparations.

	22-01-2004 05:54									#4
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quote: Originally posted by Berzerker Let's make it simpler, no one pays reparations.

What about everyone who is starving in China because you won't reparate them?

	22-01-2004 06:07									#5
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How are they to "reparate" me since you want everyone to pay reparations?

	22-01-2004 06:11									#6
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Or by "we" did you mean one group reparating everyone else?

	22-01-2004 07:34									#7
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how 'bout we just kill everyone with zyklon b and skip the entire reparations bidness?

	22-01-2004 07:39									#8
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Hmmm...

I wonder if Shirley McClane could claim reparations for one of her past lives, made payable with interest.

	22-01-2004 08:27									#9
	Re: Paradox - Estate Tax and Reparations Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by Berzerker One arguement for slavery reparations is that slaves could not pass along accumulated wealth to their descendents putting them at a disadvantage. Succeeding generations had a smaller or non-existent wealth base than the descendents of non-slaves who could inherit accumulated wealth. Is it not a paradox for people who make this arguement to want the elimination of inheritance with the state taking our wealth upon death or taxing estates even more heavily? Or is this apparent paradox fictional since those on the left who make this arguement wrt reparations actually like the fact descendents of slaves had nothing to start out with and their complaint is that other people should have been treated like the descendents of slaves, i.e., the state should place us all in the position of coming out of slavery?

I don't see any paradox.

	22-01-2004 08:30									#10
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Yet another "let's beat up on the blacks because they aren't already on their knees" thread.

	22-01-2004 08:32									#11
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why should i have to pay for something my ancestors had no part of? indeed, probably suffered a bit from?

	22-01-2004 08:34									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed why should i have to pay for something my ancestors had no part of? indeed, probably suffered a bit from?

If your grandparents stole something and then passed it down to you, are you entitled to keep it, just because you didn't steal it yourself?

That's roughly the argument.

	22-01-2004 08:35									#13
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No I actually think its a "State should not be grabbing the inheritance" thread.

	22-01-2004 08:35									#14
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except, see, my grandparents didn't enslave any of the blacks. i wasn't given anything that was stolen. why should i be punished?

	22-01-2004 08:36									#15
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the flip side is are they entitled to compensation from those who had no part in the sordid affair? if so, how is that any different from theft from those innocents?

	22-01-2004 08:37									#16
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besides, this country has a long history of keeping my kind out because of our foreignness. not to mention the yellow perils that crop up about once a decade...

	22-01-2004 08:40									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed except, see, my grandparents didn't enslave any of the blacks. i wasn't given anything that was stolen. why should i be punished?

Mine neither. They was too poor.

	22-01-2004 08:43									#18
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my family first put roots in american in 1979, four years before i was born in america. before then, not one of us had crossed the pacific.

the costs of mother's education and residency were entirely paid for by the family's money and by her own sweat.

why should she--and by extension, me--suffer for something we didn't do?

	22-01-2004 08:46									#19
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There is no contradiction. Estate taxes are meant to curb the inheritance of extravagent wealth. Before the repeal, only estates of over $1 million for single people or $2 million for married couples were taxed. That's not the kind of money people would get out of any reparation plan I've ever heard of.

	22-01-2004 08:46									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe No I actually think its a "State should not be grabbing the inheritance" thread.

Oh for Christ's sake. The inheritance tax in the US is weak as it is.

One reason there is an inheritance tax is to prevent the formation of a new virtual aristocracy based on inherited wealth. In an economy which is aimed at encouraging people to work hard in order to benefit everyone (at least that's the rationale) allowing people to gain large sums of money by doing nothing subverts that system of rewards.

Such taxes face their own problems, one being that it is a disincentive to save; but it's not, as knuckle-dragging repugnicans put it "just an excuse to steal from the dead".


And Q3, why is it that all of your political opinions seem to boil down to "I don't want to pay anything"?

	22-01-2004 08:50									#21
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Simmer down red boy.

I was simply correcting your assumption that this was a racist thread.

Now go discuss like a good boy.

	22-01-2004 08:50									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed my family first put roots in american in 1979, four years before i was born in america. before then, not one of us had crossed the pacific. the costs of mother's education and residency were entirely paid for by the family's money and by her own sweat. why should she--and by extension, me--suffer for something we didn't do?

Cry me a river.

The reason is that the state, as an abstract entity, has to pay the reparations. The state is responsible for the acts of its previous stewards just as a company is still responsible for its contracts if it is sold to new owners.

Of course many Americans can't stand the idea of reparations because those negroes might get uppity if they get some money.

But hell, let them work their way out of it like all Americans are supposed to. That would be great if only for the fact that a black guy with no criminal record is less likely to get a job interview than a white felon.

	22-01-2004 08:52									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe I was simply correcting your assumption that this was a racist thread.

It might as well be. A pack of honkies complaining about how bad they have it and how they can't possibly pay a cent more in tax to help the black folks they claim not to hate.

	22-01-2004 08:55									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo There is no contradiction. Estate taxes are meant to curb the inheritance of extravagent wealth. Before the repeal, only estates of over $1 million for single people or $2 million for married couples were taxed. That's not the kind of money people would get out of any reparation plan I've ever heard of.

Yes, and yet most Americans are under the impression that they will be victimised by this "death tax". Are they just plain vanilla stupid or "I'm one of the 20% of Americans who claim to be in the top 1% of earners" stupid.

Frankly we need to institute a new order of beadles to go around beating thick skulls.

	22-01-2004 08:56									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon honkies

Where does this term come from. Do white people honk too much?

	22-01-2004 08:57									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon Of course many Americans can't stand the idea of reparations because those negroes might get uppity if they get some money.

You're wierd. I love the "People the disagree with me are racist" line your taking. Reminds me of Fez somewhat.

	22-01-2004 08:59									#27
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc You're wierd. I love the "People the disagree with me are racist" line your taking. Reminds me of Fez somewhat.

And in the entire time I've posted here, you have not made one interesting or original comment in defense of your prejudices.

	22-01-2004 09:00									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious Where does this term come from. Do white people honk too much?

Apparently. We are supposed to sound funny when we talk.

	22-01-2004 09:02									#29
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Too bad for Agathon that making fiscal reparations to the folks who deserve it will be fundamentally impossible. First, you have to discern which African-Americans are descendant from slaves and which aren't--we can't be giving money to folks whose ancestors weren't oppressed, can we? What about mixed people...do they only get half as much? Do we allot their shares based on the percentage of blackness? I mean, some guy may look like a honkey to you, but he could be 1/16th black. So can he get a share?

Of course, the spectacle of wealthy blacks getting government checks would be amusing. Just can't wait to see what Don King does with his share, or J.C. Watts.

Or we could just settle for the radical notion that reparations should be made in the form of making sure there is real equality of opportunity and an end to racism in the U.S., instead of dishing out money and breeding a good deal more resentment from the rest of the country's citizens.

	22-01-2004 09:03									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon Apparently. We are supposed to sound funny when we talk.

Oh. I was thinking it had something to do with honky-tonk.