26-01-2004 07:37									#61
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten This assault is clearly all Eminem's fault.

His mom is Kim Basinger, which somehow lessens the repulsion.

	26-01-2004 07:39									#62
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: Neither rape, incest nor assault (the three crimes commited here) are capital crimes today, so no, the kid does not "deserve" death. Is and should are different inquiries.

So which of those do you think should be capital offenses?

	26-01-2004 07:46									#63
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From an intellectual sense, I don't think that rape should be a capital offense. Still I want to say kill him ot piss of the effete Euro types who never get to fry their criminals.

	26-01-2004 07:49									#64
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quote: Originally posted by Enigma_Nova The only way I can see this happening is if the kid wanted revenge for being sexually abused (not nescesarily by same mother).

I was thinking the same thing. A lot of times inept or bad parents can put their children into situations where they are abused, and then compound their error by not noticing, listening or believing their children after the fact. I have a good friend whose mother still goes back and forth. Sometimes she apologizes for leaving her daughter in the hands of her father who raped her repeatedly when she was really young (and did the same thing to her older sister for many years). Other times her mother denies that anything happened at all, and tells her daughter she is crazy and making things up to get attention.

I know this girl's history pretty well, and it should have been obvious to anyone who wasn't really invested in denying it that she had been abused. She acted out at such a young age (five years old), repeatedly. Anyway, if this kid's mother were something like this I can see how the anger would make such a violent act more likely, and perhaps more appropriate than we'd like to admit. And of course if his mom did abuse him directly, then we are simply talking an eye for an eye.

Of course he simply might be mad as a hatter, or was so wasted on drugs that his judgement ceased to exist.

	26-01-2004 07:51									#65
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Oh, and rape isn't as bad as murder, and I don't even support the death penalty for murder, though I do support it for treason and acts of illegal warfare blowing up office buildings full of people and the like.

	26-01-2004 08:13									#66
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quote: So which of those do you think should be capital offenses?

I don't support bright line tests for what should and should not be a capital offense. I believe that rape should sometimes be a capital offense, if in the committing, the person demonstrates that there is no way he can be rehabilitated.... like in this case.

And assault as well, such as someone who tortures but does not kill (which would aggravated assault).

	26-01-2004 08:20									#67
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what the!

This is the first thing I see when I return to Poly. hmm

	26-01-2004 08:21									#68
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It's a sign, Diss .

	26-01-2004 08:29									#69
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quote: I don't support bright line tests for what should and should not be a capital offense. I believe that rape should sometimes be a capital offense, if in the committing, the person demonstrates that there is no way he can be rehabilitated.... like in this case.

The kid is 15. Why do you think he can never be rehabilitated? And that's what life sentences are for - if the kid can never be rehabilitated (and there's absolutely no reason to believe such a thing with what we know).

It's a sad justice system that throws away peoples' lives because it's too goddamn vindictive and lazy to try rehabilitation.

	26-01-2004 08:29									#70
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I'm not sure I want to know what that sign is.

Anyways is this story true? I'm having trouble believing it.

	26-01-2004 08:30									#71
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo The kid is 15. Why do you think he can never be rehabilitated? And that's what life sentences are for - if the kid can never be rehabilitated (and there's absolutely no reason to believe such a thing with what we know). It's a sad justice system that throws away peoples' lives because it's too goddamn vindictive and lazy to try rehabilitation.

rehabilitation is a waste. But I don't think that rape should be a capital offense.

	26-01-2004 08:31									#72
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I mean heck the kid was on a break from reform school! rehab is not working! This is like proof of that.

	26-01-2004 08:32									#73
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A waste to whom?

Prisons are by and large a waste, and execution is almost always a waste.

	26-01-2004 08:32									#74
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I think rape should have higher punishments than murders.

And child sexual assault should be highest on the list.

What I don't understand is why raping a child has such a small penalty. Just recently someone got sentenced to 10 months for such a crime. Well it wasn't rape, but it was inappropiate touching I think- they never give the details.

	26-01-2004 08:33									#75
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rehabilitation is a miserable failure. Ask your texas counsel, lefty.

And dude, the irony is you are advoacting reform and he was going to reform school!!!!

	26-01-2004 08:34									#76
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Why should rape have a higher punishment than murder? I'd certainly rather be raped than killed.

	26-01-2004 08:34									#77
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo Why should rape have a higher punishment than murder? I'd certainly rather be raped than killed.

agreed.

	26-01-2004 08:44									#78
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quote: rehabilitation is a miserable failure. Ask your texas counsel, lefty.

It isn't tried all that often. Our prisons are just about the farthest thing from rehabilitation there is. The Euros, for instance, are much more successful at attacking crime through a far less brutal justice system. I'd say that vindictive "justice" is a miserable failure.

quote: And dude, the irony is you are advoacting reform and he was going to reform school!!!!

Why is ironic? What's the character of this reform school? What sort of things does it emphasize (say, psychological counseling or harsh discipline)? How long has he been attending?

	26-01-2004 08:51									#79
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quote: The kid is 15. Why do you think he can never be rehabilitated?

Because the act is so heinous, I don't think the kid can be rehabilited. He should know right from wrong by now.

	26-01-2004 09:00									#80
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That he obviously has major psychological problems doesn't mean that he can't be rehabilitated.

	26-01-2004 09:02									#81
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I don't think he can be rehabilitated. But I do think that there is a chance, he will change his ways. Won't have anything to do with reform or rehabilitation or interventions.

As far as the crime, I don't think death would be a fit penalty. He should face a harsh penalty for hwat he did. But not death.

	26-01-2004 09:04									#82
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo It isn't tried all that often. Our prisons are just about the farthest thing from rehabilitation there is. The Euros, for instance, are much more successful at attacking crime through a far less brutal justice system. I'd say that vindictive "justice" is a miserable failure.

Maybe they just have less heinous criminals there. It's a multivariable function. Can't take a difference and assume it was a partial.

	26-01-2004 09:07									#83
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Compassion changes people far more easily than violence.

	26-01-2004 09:10									#84
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quote: Compassion changes people far more easily than violence.

Only if they are willing to accepting that compassion.

	26-01-2004 09:11									#85
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Maybe. but the issue is do people change? you've shifted from efficacy in general to preferred methods.

	26-01-2004 09:12									#86
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There is one option we've over looked although I'm a bit loath to suggest it on a site with the male to female ratio of this site but what about castration? Would this not be an option so that he wouldn't committ violent sex crimes again. If he's done it once would he not do it again? He obviously doesn't have any regard for the issue of rape if he can perpitrate it on his mother.

	26-01-2004 09:14									#87
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That would be cruel and unusual punishment.

	26-01-2004 09:16									#88
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As opposed to raping your mother

Yeah ok.....

	26-01-2004 09:20									#89
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quote: As opposed to raping your mother

Raping your mother was not punishment for anything. It was a crime.

	26-01-2004 09:33									#90
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quote: Only if they are willing to accepting that compassion.

Was responding to GP's idea that if he's going to change, it wasn't going to be from an attempt at rehabilition.

quote: Maybe they just have less heinous criminals there. It's a multivariable function. Can't take a difference and assume it was a partial.

Well, do you know of a good model for a society's crime rate? I don't think it's a coincidence that places with high levels of incarceration also have high levels of violent crime. If being "tough on crime" is supposed to decrease it, I don't see any evidence to that effect. I'd also argue that most of other reasons why places like the US have such a high violent crime rate (such as poverty and drug prohibition) are endemic of this ideology that it's better to deal with people through violence than compassion.