27-02-2004 08:32									#61
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quote: Originally posted by Puma I wish there was more info on the factors affecting espionage missions. Could it be that communist spies have a higher success rate than spies in other government types? Could it also be that espionage missions become less likely to succeeed if the target civ also has its own intelligency agency?

If you look in the editor you will see that communist spies are veteran and IIRC all other spies are regular. This leads to communist spies having a higher mission success rate. Other than that I’m just not sure how much work has been done in this area as my thread searches have led to few results.

	02-03-2004 19:30									#62
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quote: Originally posted by PGM What do you mean? They can only investigate the capital, and that's only at the brief moment they're planted, right? Or is there another way of using the Ambassadors that I'm not aware of?

I am confused about this as well. 'asleep' suggested this was a problem because all cities had not been revealed yet. Well, I am able to see all cities of the espionage target and I still have this problem.


I am playing 1.12. I am only allowed to plant the spy in the enemy capital. This makes the 'propaganda' spy option useless because you can only apply propaganda to the city where your spy is planted. However, you cannot make the capital revolt. This has to be a bug of some kind.


Does 'Steal Plans' last for only one turn? If it does then I can't see where it would be more cost effective than investigating individual cities....

	03-03-2004 02:15									#63
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quote: Originally posted by bfg9000 I am confused about this as well. 'asleep' suggested this was a problem because all cities had not been revealed yet. Well, I am able to see all cities of the espionage target and I still have this problem. I am playing 1.12. I am only allowed to plant the spy in the enemy capital. This makes the 'propaganda' spy option useless because you can only apply propaganda to the city where your spy is planted. However, you cannot make the capital revolt. This has to be a bug of some kind. Does 'Steal Plans' last for only one turn? If it does then I can't see where it would be more cost effective than investigating individual cities....

I am playing Civ 3 v 1.07 and i can only plant a spy in the capital of a civ but it can investigate any city i can see and initiate propaganda on any city i see.
im not sure how long steal plans lasts but it is for more than one turn

	03-03-2004 02:19									#64
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At least get the 1.29f patch it is free.

	03-03-2004 19:15									#65
	Re: Espionage--worthless? Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by Guynemer Just out of curiosity--how much use have more experienced played made of the espionage system. It just seems too expensive and random to have any significant place in a viable strategy. Just planting a spy alone is a dicey situation.

Espionage can WIN THE GAME!

If a rival has nearly finished their spaceship and their capital is untouchable - a little sabotage production on the city making the spaceship part can gain you the time to finish your own spaceship.

OK, it doesn't happen EVERY game - but espionage is a large part of my game.

	03-03-2004 22:25									#66
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I used to see it as essentialy worthless. I now have run into a few games that I was able to use stealing techs to stay alive.

So it is situationally valuable.

	04-03-2004 04:19									#67
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Well, it is pretty much worthless in early game when buying techs is cheap.

But in industrial and modern era when you play higher difficulties (and don't catch up in tech), it's cheaper to steal it safely then to buy it.

That't probably because formula for caluclating cost is pretty weird. It doesn't depent from tech value, just from number of tech your opponent currently posses.

	04-03-2004 06:59									#68
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Remember that the Gold spent to steal a tech disappears completely from the game, while the Gold spend to buy a tech goes to another civ. Sometimes you want the other civs to receive and use your Gold, most of the times not. So this is definitely an advantage to Espionage.


Dominae

	04-03-2004 09:42									#69
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That is a good point that is often over looked.

	04-03-2004 09:44									#70
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forumla for research cost :

Research Cost = [MM * [10*COST * (1 - N/[CL*1.75])]/(CF * 10)] - Research done so far

	06-03-2004 05:23									#71
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I only use it to see how many troops they have, to check out where there troops are and investigate their cities. The rest really have never worked that well for me.

quote: Originally posted by Alex I miss how you could frame other nations (er, factions) for your own espionage actions in SMAC...

Yeah I loved doing that.

	06-03-2004 12:31									#72
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Steal Plans only works for a turn, but if that's the turn before you invade, it's invaluable. Also good for finding where any clusters of AI might be coming at -you-. Or where that lone freaking galley is hiding...

	06-03-2004 22:17									#73
	Remove this text

I used it to find out where the nukes were located to preemptively strike them.

	08-03-2004 08:53									#74
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 At least get the 1.29f patch it is free.

sorry for Out of the thread. I still keep 1.07f which have some buggy that I enjoy a lot (especially if I play in standard map).

	08-03-2004 10:29									#75
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

cool

	09-03-2004 00:12									#76
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(Showing just how much I've used espionage...)

Can you steal a tech when at war with a civ? Nations certainly try in real life, and sometimes they succeed.

	09-03-2004 14:34									#77
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Yes you can. Sometimes, I stole the plants when I was at war (very usefull for naval war)

	09-03-2004 22:01									#78
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You just can't planet spies or build embassies if at war with that civ.

	10-03-2004 16:57									#79
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 forumla for research cost : Research Cost = [MM * [10*COST * (1 - N/[CL*1.75])]/(CF * 10)] - Research done so far

eh?

RC=(MM(((10(Cost)(((1-n) 1.75CL)/10 CF)))-research already done

No wonder I can't understand a damn thing on this board, its all greek if an explanation is not given for the terms.

What is MM?
Cost (ok I got that one )
n?
CL (cost Level?)
CF (cost factor?)

	10-03-2004 22:29									#80
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It has been post a few times and I was just being lazy.


MM = map modifier(tech rate on world sizes tab in the editor)
Tiny 160
Small 200
Standard 240
Large 320
Huge 400

CF = AI cost factor(as on the difficulty tab in the editor)
For the purposes of the research cost formula, CF has a maximum value of 10.
Chieftain 10
Warlord 10
Regent 10
Monarch 9
Emperor 8
Deity 6

COST = technology cost as on the civilization advances tab in the editor.

N = number of civs on the diplomacy screen that have discovered the tech.

CL = number of civs left in the game

	10-03-2004 22:35									#81
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stealing plans is probably all i use spys for , propoganda is too expensive and has never worked for me.

	11-03-2004 18:27									#82
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Vmxa:

Thanks for the explanation of terms.

With all of these formulas on the boards I tend to get a bit confused (It's been a while since I went to Ohio State and math was not my major)

	11-03-2004 21:53									#83
	Inflate your Upload Space

Should have gone to U of M.

Glad they we of interest.

	12-03-2004 08:09									#84
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I went to U of M long time ago, but still, my current brain doesnt want to calculate those formulas . Also, math was not my major either.

	13-03-2004 07:08									#85
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by binyo66 I went to U of M long time ago, but still, my current brain doesnt want to calculate those formulas . Also, math was not my major either.

I feel for ya.....Out of respect I won't post our version of 'Victors Valiant"

GO BUCKS

	13-03-2004 07:17									#86
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LOL, I still have "Victor's Valiant" stuck in my head from an Orlando piano bar on New Year's Eve of 2000. Seems like I remember an OSU guy built like a backup linebacker that was down there just to harass Wolverine fans.

	13-03-2004 16:43									#87
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somehow i never get MGL i get SGL very easily but never a MGL even when my elite spearman attacks in his own a babarian tribe which has like 9 units.

	13-03-2004 18:46									#88
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i dont think you can get MGL by attacking barbs. you have to kill other civs. i think...

	13-03-2004 22:57									#89
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Yes you cannot get a MGL from barbs.

	14-03-2004 18:16									#90
	Remove this text

ahhh thanks for the info