29-01-2004 02:34									#31
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

exactly we have to get an agreement not to give physics to lego.

	29-01-2004 02:36									#32
	Re: from ND Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Cort Haus I got this slightly cryptic reply from Zayxus (copy in log):

wtf does that mean?

sigh

	29-01-2004 02:37									#33
	to MZ Put an end to popups!

(copy in log)

quote: It is good, as always, to hear from you, MZ. Your offer appears spirited and principled, and perhaps some indication that this is a genuine mistake, and not another example of GoW's famed skill at manipulating GS during negotiations that, we are interested to note, is now a matter of historical record. There is a slight balance issue. Chemistry is 60, Physics 64 =100 beakers on this level. We've used our gold to research Chemistry at deficit, spending 300 beakers. Even disregarding the depreciated cost of Chemistry, we would therefore seek 400g to compensate. This might be more than one turn of your max gold, but it would enable the first deal and pave the way for the second. One other thing - Lego mustn't get hold of Physics unless they research it themselves. 20 turns should be enough. I think that's mutually understood, and we'd respect a reciprocal NDA on Chemistry. Regards, Cort.

	29-01-2004 04:36									#34
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I agree in full with your message, Cort, but maybe I would have put it a bit more friendly... GoW itself is rather direct, but MZ needs a bit of honey on his deals to swallow them more easily... I don't think the 400 gold is any exageration, it's a bargain for them, but from your message they don't see it like that... I fear.

Anyway, for staying the focus point of our team, you're doing a lot of work and it is appreciated!

DeepO

	29-01-2004 04:58									#35
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Beaker counts for this turn here .

It look like Navigation has been researched, but not Economics.

Sorry if I've blown anything by telling GoW what I think, but I'm tired - sick and tired of being messed around about twenty times by GoW in the last 3 months.

MZ has been bragging about giving us the run-around in negotiations on that post-war thread and I'm sick of being humiliated by them.

	29-01-2004 05:02									#36
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I've had this

quote: A quick post script : A deal may need to be considered over time on our forums etc, but if we both want the deal then it's now or never. You can send Chemistry accepted, and have my word that we won't accept it unless we've finalised the deal before that point. - Cort

hovering in my browser for an hour or two, wondering whether to send it

	29-01-2004 05:14									#37
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I did send it.

	29-01-2004 05:33									#38
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good, that helps.



I'm tired of dealing with these guys to. I don't like the mind games aspect of the game.

	29-01-2004 06:13									#39
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Navigation was researched last turn (510AD). Two turns ago it was at full price.

Lego are now researching either Economics or Physics. If the latter, we want to be one or two turns behind them to get the full depreciation benefit.

We know from the public forum that GoW, ND and Lego had a three way research pact - a pact that should be reaching it's conclusion about now. If GoW are 5/6 turns from Metallurgy, and then seven or eight from Mil Trad, their WW from us will have worn off, and they'll be ready for the next one. Better start getting the popcorn ready.

	29-01-2004 06:42									#40
	Increase Your PM Length

Seems fair to me, I agree it it was a tad less than friendly, they had it coming. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.

Maybe they were legit mistakes, but how many are you entitled to get.

	29-01-2004 07:32									#41
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 Seems fair to me, I agree it it was a tad less than friendly, they had it coming. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. Maybe they were legit mistakes, but how many are you entitled to get.

Exactly.

	29-01-2004 12:52									#42
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

We need some one to be a strong hand and to know everything that is going on in it's intimate details. You are doing a very good job of that, Cort Haus. Keep doing it.

Just so you know, the GoW habits of fudging negotiations and deals goes all the way back. They sold Code of Laws or Currency to Lego while under an NDA. 'Oops, sorry' and a small payment is what we got.

Time to use the stick on them, and if they don't want to trade, then fine. They are in a position to be little more than a tool of ND or Lego. There is no need to encourage them in believing that we're buying their shtick anymore.

	29-01-2004 14:51									#43
	Remove this text

Panzer's screenshot on the Bob thread here is revealing in a way he didn't intend.

Look at the gpt with 100% tax on 300AD : 143gpt.

That's with a Golden Age too. Now, they may gave managed a marketplace or two since then, but one turn of that hardly squares up to our 291 beakers-per-turn.

Their economy sucks.

	29-01-2004 19:23									#44
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Good to know. I doubt ND is so economically weak. They strike me as a more balanced team.

Leo's did a lot to cancel out that economic weakness for GoW, but if they don't use it once again to do a massive horse->cavalry upgrade and then use those Cavs, the advantage is gonna largely go away as the game progresses.

-Arrian