31-01-2004 02:11									#61
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 Then it does strike as a bit odd that the Palestinian casualties are double that of Israelis. (Also numbers aside, no fancy videos about that but there are some truely disturbing pictures of 2 year old Palestinians meeting their maker or eternal darkness)

There ARE such instances of children "meeting their maker or eternal darkness" - some rare times even on purpose by murderous hands; but NO ONE is denying that!

Problem is - you see and flag a severely disproportionate amount of attack casualties on such scenario in every instance. The reality of the situation is that a large number of these dwarfing innocents are merely unproven accomplices or in situational ride along for "whatever reason"

Yes there are situational ride alongs of children in day adjacent cares - but that minority instance of Israeli murder takes up such a huge proportion of your self convincing that you're left blind to complete outlook.

So yes - innocent casualties are do contain innocent Palestinians! They also cotain people in the back seat of the targetted sociopath, complete morons (and near shields) "trying to do the human thing" as Che has convinced himself, and Israeli nobodys going to work on the bus. Seems you're too blind to look past the simple numbers, at this point

Save the refugees! All those REFUGEES!

	31-01-2004 02:15									#62
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Zylka don;t flatter yourself thinking I read what you posted. I stopped after the first line because you failed to answer to this simple fact: Pal casualties double that of Israelis. Maaaaaany more videos baby!

Make no mistake I kinda like you and I know we disagree on this issue (o lord!!! the world will come tumbling down) but this is a very simple point. If blood is what we're counting here then the Pal one is double that of Israelis. If practices for how this is doen is what we're talking about then that's another matter. Anyway I much preferd you when you were writing weird threahds but my conscience doesn't allow me to mock someone who's taken interests in politics and the world around them agreeing or not.

	31-01-2004 02:19									#63
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quote: Originally posted by Eli Look on the raw numbers. It's mainly because the Pals got much "better" at killing Jews.

There are a number of reasons. Primarily I susect it's because previous attacks against Israel were laucnhed from abroad, so it much easier for Israel to detect and nuetralize them. The Israelis, for all their faults, are also more discriminating these days about retaliating. Instead of destroying whole villages in retaliation, they mostly target militants (excepting the occassional Israeli solider who decides he's just gonna pop some raghead for amusement), but don't care who's in the way. Meanwhile, Palestinian attacks are no longer lauched as guerila attacks but are disguised.

	31-01-2004 02:22									#64
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quote: Pal casualties double that of Palestinians. Maaaaaany more videos baby!

You have to compare the number of casualties with the capability to cause them. Israel had killed ~2,500, the Pals had killed ~1000. How many more people COULD the Pals kill if they wanted? Almost 0, since almost every opportunity to kill was used. How many more people COULD Israel kill if it wanted? About 4 million.

Just imagine how many Israelis would've been dead by now if the Pals had the same capabilities of the IDF.

	31-01-2004 02:23									#65
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Israel can't kill 4 million because it is not an island. facts remain about the double Pal blood.

	31-01-2004 02:26									#66
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quote: The whole purpose of this thread is to demonize a whole group of people.

Oh - you've got it, especially with the mixed sentiments expressed towards the bomber himself (wonderful attention span).

quote: I'm monkeywrenching it

You know.. I now wonder if behind the screen you're really just some smiling CIA prop who goes from site to site in stirring up frustrating debate - simply to remind the world who they are through a new media. Kind of like setting up a moronic bad guy of sorts - one who gets us thinking, and reitorating the simple yet common sense abstracts of life in response

Or, you're just an antagonistic fraud with underdog mentality engrained by a rough school life. Yeah - I like that one better

	31-01-2004 02:29									#67
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 I stopped after the first line because you failed to answer to this simple fact: Pal casualties double that of Israelis.

Ok. Well here's an important excerpt regarding the simple minded idiocy above!

quote: Originally posted by Zylka Seems you're too blind to look past the simple numbers, at this point

Good to see such an open minded "free thinker", though. At least I read your English butchering blanket statements. Not bad for a Pal hating bigot!

	31-01-2004 02:31									#68
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara There are a number of reasons. Primarily I susect it's because previous attacks against Israel were laucnhed from abroad, so it much easier for Israel to detect and nuetralize them.

Nah. Most attacks always came from Judea, Samaria and the Gaza Strip. You just hear about the international ones more often. Almost daily raids were commonplace in the 50s and 60s. Due to technological differences even the succesfull attacks ended with a very small number of Israelis dead and/or injured, so it never really made the news around the world.

quote: The Israelis, for all their faults, are also more discriminating these days about retaliating. Instead of destroying whole villages in retaliation,

Oh come on, a single village was destroyed during a retaliation action and even that was a result of a decision made by the specific force acting there and caused an enourmous controversy in Israel. It definetely wasnt the policy you make it sound like.

	31-01-2004 02:33									#69
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Would there still be suicide bombings if Israel stopped exisiting?

	31-01-2004 02:33									#70
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 Israel can't kill 4 million because it is not an island. facts remain about the double Pal blood.

Re read my post. If Israel wanted, it could do it. Since it wasnt done, Israel doesnt want. The Pals want, but cant.

	31-01-2004 02:34									#71
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quote: Originally posted by Ecthelion Would there still be suicide bombings if Israel stopped exisiting?

Would there still be car accidents if cars stopped existing?

	31-01-2004 02:35									#72
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara If you changed it to usually not targetting non-combatants but often times getting them anyways, I'd agree with you. Fact is, given the numbers of deaths, the Israelis are either sloppy and incompetent or simply don't care about non-combatant deaths.

Sometimes the Israelis are sloppy, yes, but they work on improving their actions to minimize civilian deaths. If they wanted to increase the number of dead Palestinian civilians, they could easily do so.

There was thread a week or two back where there was discussion about civilian to total death stats for Israelis vs. Palestinian terrorists. Israelis had a rate in the mid 30s rate while Palestinian Terrorists had ~80%.

Now compare that mid-30% range to most wars, particularily those in urban environments.



And of course, Terrorists firing amoung Palestinian civilians sure doesn't help matters...

	31-01-2004 02:36									#73
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quote: Originally posted by Ecthelion Would there still be suicide bombings if Israel stopped exisiting?

Would I keep stabbing your mother with an ice pick if you gave me a million dollars to stop?

	31-01-2004 02:53									#74
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a week or so ago a woman blew up at erez crossing, Gaza, killing 4 israeli soldiers.


The crossing had been reopened to enable Palestinians to get to jobs in israel, relieving the economic misery of Gaza.

At the crossing, the woman set off a metal detector - she should have been sent back, but claimed to have a metal implant in her leg. So she was searched, instead.
A mercy to someone with physical infirmity.

She was searched in a seperate room, to protect her privacy as a woman.

3 acts of humanity - rewarded by 4 dead Israelis.

Ad matai, Hashem, ad Matai?????????????

	31-01-2004 02:56									#75
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The terrorist groups want the misery to continue. The longer the people suffer, the longer the terrorsts can gather support. I wonder if she had a another target or if she was trying to close the gate.

	31-01-2004 02:57									#76
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There is nothing new left to say on this whole conflict right now. Same old stuff, same old.

anyone have video from some terrorts attacks elsewhere? That way we get to see dead bodies from all around the world.

	31-01-2004 03:31									#77
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quote: 3 acts of humanity - rewarded by 4 dead Israelis.

I wish though, you guys were not building a security wall. I cannot see this policy easing tensions in the long run. Palestinians and Jews need more contact, not less.

	31-01-2004 05:15									#78
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Che - if you for a minute think that Israel is not doing whatever it possibly can to minimize civilian damage, than you are mistaken - and right now my information comes from real life, and not newspaper sources.

If you had compared the death rates of palestinain civilians with death rates of civilians in other battles taking place in a civilian environment, you would see the Israelis outscore the US, UK and UN in it's care and consideration for citizens.

I have not wittnessed an Israeli action yet, but I now know alot more facts about how they work, and I can tell you that claims of Israeli inconsideration are false.

	31-01-2004 06:55									#79
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Everybody chill out -- or else.

	31-01-2004 06:57									#80
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quote: Originally posted by Sirotnikov Che - if you for a minute think that Israel is not doing whatever it possibly can to minimize civilian damage, than you are mistaken - and right now my information comes from real life, and not newspaper sources.

Ah, but do your real life sources include thigns such as footages of IDF men deliberately targeting journalists and peaceful protesters, while turning a blind eye to the violent acts of Israeli settlers?

	31-01-2004 07:11									#81
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Just watched the video. My support for Israel is now absolute. Those murdering bastards don't deseve to live, let alone have their own country.

	31-01-2004 07:32									#82
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 Then it does strike as a bit odd that the Palestinian casualties are double that of Israelis. (Also numbers aside, no fancy videos about that - damn Palestinians caught in the technological middle ages - but there are some truely disturbing pictures of 2 year old Palestinians meeting their maker or eternal darkness. )

No, it doesn't. Israelis are just a lot more effective. Plus, I'd like to know if those are purely civilian casualties

	31-01-2004 08:16									#83
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quote: Ah, but do your real life sources include thigns such as footages of IDF men deliberately targeting journalists and peaceful protesters, while turning a blind eye to the violent acts of Israeli settlers?

My real life source is me. I know rather well what efforts go on to ensure minimal cause of harm to civilians and civilian property.

As for footages of IDF men deliberately targetting journalists, I'm still waiting for those to come out

What I do know is that soldiers turn a blind eye to settlers, and that does infuriate me, especialyl when it comes to racist sleaze bags that exist among settlers.

Sadly though, the soldiers are not allowed to touch settlers, since they are army folk. Only the police or Shin Bet can deal with Israeli citizens.

What is more sad, is that mostly the IDF troops protecting the settlers are racists or sleaze bags themselves. They are usually Border Patrol and BP are considered the dumbest and most violent bunch in the army. It's a problem, and I'm not sure how to fix it.

The positive thing is that often Israeli news reporters join their patrols and manage to cover events like settlers harrassing Palestinians.

The police and shin bet are attempting to crack down settler voilent groups, especially the terrorists among them (and there are those, sadly). But the police sucks at that, and the Shin Bet is dedicated to preventing terrorism against Israelis first, so it's short on man power.

	31-01-2004 08:45									#84
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settlements (of both sides) are one reality that definitely need to be cut & withdrawn before tensions ease. I briefly remember a home video of Sharon promo visiting a settler family who ambushed him with bawling demands for a "warriors" lead

they generally seem *ing psycho, but again - that's a simple perception

	31-01-2004 09:13									#85
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quote: Originally posted by Eli Re read my post. If Israel wanted, it could do it. Since it wasnt done, Israel doesnt want. The Pals want, but cant.

I think there might be repercussions if you set out to kill 4 million people, "even" Palestinians.

	31-01-2004 09:18									#86
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 I think there might be repercussions if you set out to kill 4 million people, "even" Palestinians.

Yes, but how bad when you have a rich and powerful Uncle?

	31-01-2004 09:24									#87
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I doubt we'll ever find out. Thank God it's not in Rwanda.

	31-01-2004 14:49									#88
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quote: I think there might be repercussions if you set out to kill 4 million people, "even" Palestinians.

I see.
So the Palestinians can kill all the Israelis it can and Israel should only kill X% of the Palestinians it can (assuming they are all guilty of involvement in terror)?

Did no one tell you the difference between fractions and raw numbers, and how you can't compare absolute numbers?

	31-01-2004 20:52									#89
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quote: Originally posted by Sirotnikov As for footages of IDF men deliberately targetting journalists, I'm still waiting for those to come out

I've seen them with my own eyes, so I don't know why you're still waiting.

In the Line of Fire

	31-01-2004 22:01									#90
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara I've seen them with my own eyes, so I don't know why you're still waiting.

So have I.

Israel is occupying Palestinian land and violating the Fourth Geneva convention as well as UN resolutions. If Israelis want sympathy they can stop ****ing the Palestinians over. This attack was in response for an Israeli attack the previous day. I didn't see any pictures of that.

I feel sorry for the victims, but that doesn't extend to endorsing that fat Nazi Sharon. I only wish the bombers had got him instead.