31-01-2004 18:32									#1
	PUT-CC Unification! Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I had this chat with Archaic. Don't mind my awful attempt at saying something funny in the beginning.

***
Maniac (bezet, tenzij voor vragen ivm 't examen) says:
Hi Archaic!
•$(170,200,230)•&'rafy - 天使な小生意気 - Tenshi Na Konamaiki•0 says:
Heya.
•$(170,200,230)•&'rafy - 天使な小生意気 - Tenshi Na Konamaiki•0 says:
Sorry for my absence. Continuing blackouts.
Maniac (bezet, tenzij voor vragen ivm 't examen) says:
of electricity?
Maniac (bezet, tenzij voor vragen ivm 't examen) says:
or of your memory?
•$(170,200,230)•&'rafy - 天使な小生意気 - Tenshi Na Konamaiki•0 says:
Electricity.
Maniac (bezet, tenzij voor vragen ivm 't examen) says:
ah
Maniac (bezet, tenzij voor vragen ivm 't examen) says:
Anyway, have you been able to catch up with mails lately?
•$(170,200,230)•&'rafy - 天使な小生意気 - Tenshi Na Konamaiki•0 says:
Not really.
Maniac (bezet, tenzij voor vragen ivm 't examen) says:
Darn
Maniac (bezet, tenzij voor vragen ivm 't examen) says:
Can I give a short summary?
Maniac (bezet, tenzij voor vragen ivm 't examen) says:
Or better another time?
•$(170,200,230)•&'rafy - 天使な小生意気 - Tenshi Na Konamaiki•0 says:
Better another time. I'm quite tired right now, and in the middle of setting up the new laptop.
Maniac (bezet, tenzij voor vragen ivm 't examen) says:
Okay. I'll hopefully see you another time then.
(Edit: Some time later, I asked: )
Maniac (bezet, tenzij voor vragen ivm 't examen) says:
Btw, can I quickly ask: if someone was willing to replace you as Dean, would you be glad to accept your offer? I get the impression the ACDG may be a burden for you.
•$(170,200,230)•&'rafy - 天使な小生意気 - Tenshi Na Konamaiki•0 says:
It is.
Maniac (bezet, tenzij voor vragen ivm 't examen) says:
Ah well, in that case: Tassadar has recently told in our forum that it is allowed for factions to unite by becoming members of each other's forum, sharing each other's password etc. So if you want to get rid of the ACDG, I would like to offer a unification of the PUT and CC factions. That way, if you're interested, we could play the PUT turn from now on, releasing you from the burden.
•$(170,200,230)•&'rafy - 天使な小生意気 - Tenshi Na Konamaiki•0 says:
I could accept that.
Maniac (bezet, tenzij voor vragen ivm 't examen) says:
That would be great. We've been able to cooperate well the last few years, and this would be the perfect coronation of our good relationship.
Maniac (bezet, tenzij voor vragen ivm 't examen) says:
Can I announce this to Googlie and Tassadar already, or do you want to think about it some more, and write them a message themselves?
Maniac (bezet, tenzij voor vragen ivm 't examen) says:

•$(170,200,230)•&'rafy - 天使な小生意気 - Tenshi Na Konamaiki•0 says:
Feel free to announce it.
•$(170,200,230)•&'rafy - 天使な小生意気 - Tenshi Na Konamaiki•0 says:
I can't even get on 'poly ATM. Got to get my password off the old computer.
Maniac (bezet, tenzij voor vragen ivm 't examen) says:
Ouch
***

So to any God, can we unite now already, or do you first need personal confirmation of Archaic (which could take a while due to electricity blackouts and him not having access to Apolyton)? And if we can unite, could I please ask an extension of the deadline so we can get to know PUT better and make plans?
Thanks.

	31-01-2004 20:56									#3
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Send some messages to all the ex-Uni members and see which ones are interested in joining us. General Tacticus would be a nice prize. Also we should ask Archaic to stay active with us, their must be some kind of job he is interested in doing as he wont be under half as much pressure as he has been. Likly he would remain the Uni Turn player but we provide hime with an Orders list. It all depends on what interest him, ask him in what capacity he would like to continue playing in.

	31-01-2004 22:30									#4
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Tassadar has smiled upon us: !
I am gonna prepare a special edition of 3D for the annoucement of Unification!
Just tell me when will it take place.

	31-01-2004 22:46									#5
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But won`t unification with PUT mean the start of the WW? Or will the Hive-Drone reconsider and leave PUT-CC alone? Call me a pacifist, but if WW starts so soon...

	01-02-2004 01:28									#6
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I dunno....

All I do know is that I need no personal confirmation (I highly doubt you would forge this, knowing what you know about me )
However, I'm not going to extend the deadline. You'll still have 48+12 hours for both the University and CyCon.

	01-02-2004 05:53									#7
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There's one little problem: I didn't ask Archaic the PUT password.
* Maniac starts running from angry hordes of cyborgs.
I have sent a mail to Archaic, asking the password and whether he wants to stay active in the PUT-CC. But since Archaic is busy right now, I doubt he'll read that mail in the next few days. Therefore I've also sent a PM to 4 other PUT members: GT, Minute Mirage, AdamTG and AgentSubversion, explaining the situation, asking the password and whether they'd like to join us etc. Hopefully they'll respond before the PUT deadline runs out. In any case: Tassadar has in his glory given us a 12 hour extension.

	01-02-2004 05:58									#8
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great um glory to tass or something

	01-02-2004 06:16									#9
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quote: Originally posted by obstructor But won`t unification with PUT mean the start of the WW? Or will the Hive-Drone reconsider and leave PUT-CC alone? Call me a pacifist, but if WW starts so soon...

It can go in both directions. If it's all right, I'll contact the Hive directly after the unification is official (if we have the password) and ask what they will do in a Drone<->CC-PUT war. Choose sides or remain neutral and win a co-op with the winner of that war.
However I think we should unify no matter what. PUT is being probe raped to death by the Drones, and Archaic hasn't started building any defences, and is too busy to read my mails with suggestions. We need to act now to have a chance to save PUT from destruction at the hands of the Drones.

	01-02-2004 09:24									#10
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Ok, unification it is then
Reason the more to start ASAP a probe building program, PUT's bases needs to be protected.
And building a transport to bring them there. I thought Impaler already suggested that in the IAF thread?

	01-02-2004 17:07									#11
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Okay, Archaic forwarded me the latest turn and also the password: "varsity". Onwards to planning and officially announcing the unification I'd say!

(I probably won't be able to open the turn and see what's happening until tonight though)

Last edited by Maniac on 01-02-2004 at 17:35

	01-02-2004 19:02									#12
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Okay, I had a first look at the PUT turn.
I accepted SFF and AppPhys from CyCon. I switched research to DAP and changed research to 20-10-70.
I switched a librarian to a doctor in Cairns to counter drone riots.
I put a worker in Gold Coast to a borehole, which was being harvested for minerals by a crawler. Rather inefficient if you ask me.
As a consequence of these actions, we'll get DAP next turn. I also offered CyCon Neural, EcoEng & EnvEcon pre-accepted.

The Drones attacked Gold Coast with a missile needlejet.

PEACE has obtained Nonlinear Mathematics. Don't know how though, as AFAIK the Hive and Drones don't have that tech. I guess they could have bought it from the AI, as PEACE has sold their energy bank and all their rec commons. They've hurried the CP in Calico Island with that.
One other thing: PEACE has hurried or switched production in Little Accident to a Laser Squad. This means it would be very dangerous to execute our current plan to land troops east of that base now. The veteran 2-2-2 could beat the very green or green plasma garrison, and then the rover could eliminate one of the impact marines.
How about we instead move ALL troops to HMB and start eliminating all crawlers on that island? It would delay the capture of Pamplona, but as PEACE will probably manage to build a base on Calico Island, it's important we reduce their mineral production to end this war, so they can build less military units.

Also, our dear pactmates Hive have somehow acquired Doctrine: Initiative. I presume that must be by trading with PEACE. I wonder what PEACE got in return though, since AFAIK the Hive couldn't have been the one giving them NonlMath.

Can I suggest that we switch all bases that don't have acquired many minerals yet to military production?

That's about all I've checked about now. Please make more suggestions!

Oh yeah, could please someone accept the two techs from CyCon, and then switch research and make a list of all techs you have as an option. I forgot doing so, and this info is important to be able to predict the future PUT researches choices with Minute Mirage's mod3 Excel program. I haven't been able to replicate the choices for PUT yet.

	01-02-2004 21:11									#13
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Boy it has already started, We probly will need to move into a stronger military footing.

Also I think you should have sent us Evn Econ as that could help raise our Energy output and trade revenue.

Uni is currently building a lot of Reserch enhansing Facilites but I think that should be switched to defences ASAP. They need AiroSpace Complexes and AAA Plasma Garrisons ASAP.

We will have to produce new ships to head up their, likly AAA Plasma Steal to match their Missle Jets, with Air Superiority Intercepters parked over our Forces for more protection, this will alow us to block Drone navel vessels and enshure that any aircraft sent to attack us are lost.

This its also urgent that we infiltrate Drones to see what their up too, keeping Uni out of their Hands is in my opinion more important then concouring the remainder of PEACE at this point.

	01-02-2004 21:37									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac Also, our dear pactmates Hive have somehow acquired Doctrine: Initiative. I presume that must be by trading with PEACE. I wonder what PEACE got in return though, since AFAIK the Hive couldn't have been the one giving them NonlMath.

Might be the reason Jamski asked for keeping a PEACE base alive. They're preparing to build missile units (perhaps even needlejets) and transfer them to the PEACE. Even a blockade can't stop that sort of thing.

And for our production: first probes, we're bound to lose a few PUT bases anyway before we can reinforce PUT with our own units. If the military units come from new production or the Task Forces' marines doesn't really matter. The present forces busy with PEACE can be by PUT territory before any new unit can be build and transported anyway.

Ok, taking a quick look at the PUT save.

First, I think defense line needs to be put on the bases of Gardens Point and Kelvin Grove. Everything north of it is to small anyway.
My recommendation: Force build the production of Gardens Point and Kelvin Grove, switch to defense units afterwards.
Caboolture: switch production to command center, only 6 minerals lost, and stronger defense units can be build and transported later from there.
Cairns: force build research hospital. I know it costs a lot of energy, but that way Drones can't steal the energy, and the loss of the network node in Gold Coast gets compensated then, much less chance that research will slow down by a turn. Produce defense units afterwards I guess.
Bring as many crawlers south as you can, perhaps using them to build defense units quicker on the defense line.
Extra probe teams in some cities, again, bring them south.
For the moment, CyCon shouldn't give ANY tech that Hive/Drones don't have. I guess the reason is obvious
Move that defender from Sunshine Coast to Gold Coast if we still have that possibility. Not much use, but it delays things. That is what we need most now, delay for the Drone assault progress.

I accepted the tech donation as Cycon, changed research to Doc: AP, to be ready in 2 turns (might slow down when bases get conquered). The choices available for PUT for research:
- Doc: Init
- Doc: AP
- Cent. Emp.
- Prog. Psych
- Pol. Soft.
- HEC
- Doc. Loy.

	01-02-2004 23:16									#15
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Several question about unification:
-are we in official state of war against Drones?
-are PUT at official state of war against Pirates?
-who will authorize us for PUT forums?

	02-02-2004 01:25									#16
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-One would think so, yes.
-One would think so, yes.
-Well....Ming or Archaic can, but I don't see why you'd want to. When I first got in there, I was shocked to see how small it was!

	02-02-2004 01:34									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar When I first got in there, I was shocked to see how small it was!

Well, it was almost disbanded. And there are two members. And Tass, you do not manage our politics!

	02-02-2004 02:01									#18
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I am absent for a couple of days and all this happens. Anyway, looks fantastic With this close co-operation, it looks like we could stand a real chance

	02-02-2004 02:24									#19
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quote: Originally posted by obstructor And Tass, you do not manage our politics!

You DARE violate the tenth commandment?
REPENT NOW OR PAY FOR YOUR SINS!!!

	02-02-2004 02:38									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar You DARE violate the tenth commandment? REPENT NOW OR PAY FOR YOUR SINS!!!

Please forgive your Chosen One!

	02-02-2004 02:43									#21
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Hmm...OK

	02-02-2004 05:11									#22
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GeoModder:

quote: My recommendation: Force build the production of Gardens Point and Kelvin Grove, switch to defense units afterwards.

quote: Caboolture: switch production to command center, only 6 minerals lost, and stronger defense units can be build and transported later from there.

There's one disadvantage though, namely that there is no road between Caboolture and the rest of PUT. So any unit produced there would take a few turns to become useful. Therefore how about from next turn on we produce air units there instead? And this turn we could switch production to for example a probe team which would be finished in time next year.

quote: Cairns: force build research hospital. I know it costs a lot of energy, but that way Drones can't steal the energy, and the loss of the network node in Gold Coast gets compensated then, much less chance that research will slow down by a turn.

That's a lot of energy. If not losing cash to the drones is the main reason: we can just transmit any credits we don't use in the PUT turn to the next faction in line: the CyCon, where we can use it to hurry some rec commons etc.
Also we aren't sure Gold Coast will be attacked. If buster captured it this turn without first doing a serious military chopper and drop troops build-up, he'd be probe raped to death by all those librarians swarming over the PUT continent. So we might have a couple more turns, not many, but still a few. Certainly enough to get DAP I hope.

quote: Bring as many crawlers south as you can, perhaps using them to build defense units quicker on the defense line.

I'll see what can be done, but about all squares in the south are already worked. There's hardly room for even one more crawler there. Regarding using them to build units faster, we can cash them in next turn to hurry one or more missile interceptor prototypes or something.

quote: Extra probe teams in some cities, again, bring them south.

Not to the north, stationing them not in but around the bases? That way, if buster captures a base, it'll be surrounded by librarians to probe him.

quote: Move that defender from Sunshine Coast to Gold Coast if we still have that possibility.

I'll do that. I'll do the same for that scout skirmisher and synthmetal defence.

quote: The choices available for PUT for research:

Thanks. I'll see what I can do with this data tomorrow.

obstructor:

quote: Several question about unification: -are we in official state of war against Drones?

I (or better: someone else ) would like to send a message to buster, asking for a truce, and stating some reasons for it, eg that we'd probe rape him if he'd capture a PUT base. That way we can hopefully buy some time.

quote: -are PUT at official state of war against Pirates?

PUT is currently pacted to PEACE. However I guess PEACE will break that pact if they hear about the news. It's better we don't break it though: that would give us an unnecessary reputation decline, which can still be important as there are AIs in the game.

quote: -who will authorize us for PUT forums?

What Tass says I guess. I've applied for membership, but it probably wouldn't be a big loss if we didn't get access.

	02-02-2004 11:59									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac There's one disadvantage though, namely that there is no road between Caboolture and the rest of PUT. So any unit produced there would take a few turns to become useful. Therefore how about from next turn on we produce air units there instead? And this turn we could switch production to for example a probe team which would be finished in time next year.

Yes, air units will be a good idea, but I think finishing a command center there is a good idea to.
So far, sufficient probes in PUT, so an extra one is not necessary. A command Center can be useful just in case Buster has a stronger fist then we expect (eg. more NJ then that one we see.

quote: Originally posted by Maniac That's a lot of energy. If not losing cash to the drones is the main reason: we can just transmit any credits we don't use in the PUT turn to the next faction in line: the CyCon, where we can use it to hurry some rec commons etc.

A energy transfer is fine to me, but why not using the excess of crawlers then to force-build the ResHos in Cairns? As you said, there to many and they are in the way on the moment. I think it's a waste to lose those 20 minerals, and that base is safe down there, time to build it. Or perhaps let it change to an air base when D:AP is researched .

quote: Originally posted by Maniac Also we aren't sure Gold Coast will be attacked. If buster captured it this turn without first doing a serious military chopper and drop troops build-up, he'd be probe raped to death by all those librarians swarming over the PUT continent. So we might have a couple more turns, not many, but still a few. Certainly enough to get DAP I hope.

We don't know the Drones' invasion strength. For all we know more transports are in the dark above the transport we can see. Hell, it can even contain 4 probes ready to engage the PUT probes.

quote: Originally posted by Maniac There's hardly room for even one more crawler there. Regarding using them to build units faster, we can cash them in next turn to hurry one or more missile interceptor prototypes or something.

just bring those not necessary for force-finish production in Gardens Point and Kelvin Grove.
Those bases need to change production ASAP to defense, but again, it doesn't cost much to finish their present production

quote: Originally posted by Maniac Not to the north, stationing them not in but around the bases?

O, I only referred to the second one in Longreach. The rest is usefull were they are. As you said, probing Buster to death IS fun now

	02-02-2004 18:51									#24
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quote: Originally posted by GeoModder A energy transfer is fine to me, but why not using the excess of crawlers then to force-build the ResHos in Cairns?

IIRC crawlers are only cashed in using their full mineral value while hurrying SPs or prototypes. For a normal facility, when disbanding only half their mineral value would be added.

quote: As you said, there to many and they are in the way on the moment. I think it's a waste to lose those 20 minerals, and that base is safe down there, time to build it. Or perhaps let it change to an air base when D:AP is researched

Do you mean an Aerospace Complex? That sounds like a good idea to me. We could do the same for Gold Coast, if it hasn't been captured yet that is.

	02-02-2004 19:56									#25
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ok can someone explain to me how our government will run from now on? who will make which dicisions? will we have one big government or an overlapping one for the existing ones

	02-02-2004 20:03									#26
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AFAIK it will just be the same, unless suddenly lots of PUT members come flooding to here, or Achaic . We only have many more great bases to decide about.

	02-02-2004 20:10									#27
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ok...then how do you all have the save of the uni?...i dont have the password

	02-02-2004 20:14									#28
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The password is "varsity", announced somewhere in this thread (should post it somewhere more clear I guess). The PUT saves can be downloaded in the turn tracking thread (start of turn) or in the turn reports thread (midturn save with lots of modifications already done).

Edit:
http://www.apolyton.com/forums/show...799#post2683799

	03-02-2004 12:55									#29
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You should probably delete that password from the thread, just in case. There's too many people playing all sides around.

For the next month at least, I doubt I'll be able to have any sort of involvement in this game. I simply don't have the time with work, and the prep for my trip. After that.....who knows. I'd love to participate if I can, however I don't know how busy I'll be in Japan.

Oh yes, and I've already authed the CC turn players who requested access. Really not that much to see there however.

	04-02-2004 11:02									#30
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Some players are voicing concerns over how much time CyCon will get for playing CyCon and PUT turns....
and their arguments tempt me to impose a 12+12 limit for CyCon and PUT turns (meaning the max time CPU could take out is 48 hours)....
What say you?