04-02-2004 23:07									#61
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Silly

You have to put a tiger-skin rug on the stairs.

-Jam

	05-02-2004 00:12									#62
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Its my party and I'll cr.. erm.. put marbles on the stairs if I want to.

	05-02-2004 01:21									#63
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quote: You have not answered the vendetta question.

That will be up to CyCon. If they wish to persue vendetta, they may.
If not...then they may not.
Again, it really is up to them.

quote: Second, if former PUT members decided to go their own away in the future, as it is a voluntary initiative by PUT, they should be allowed to do so.

They should be, but for all intents and purposes they are an eliminated faction now.
I'm sure, however, if PUT members wanted to regain their nation that CyCon would allow them to
Remember, this wasn't forced vassalization.

quote: Anyhow from what you say I gather they are really just a humdrum permi pact.

Sigh. Call it what you will.

	05-02-2004 02:32									#64
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quote: Originally posted by Jamski Sorry, but PUT are letting the CyCon play the PUT turn for them? This stinks.

Imagine this. PUT decides to ceed all their bases to us (allowed). That is the same thing, in effect.

Sure, we could not play the CyCon turn, we could let Archaic play it and tell him what to do. It makes no difference in reality. We are effectively one faction. Whether we ceed all PUT bases to the CyCon or leave it as too, I don't see a difference.

We have two turns, but we only get one turn of base production, one of movement, etc, just split into two. It's like playing half your turn, and then stopping and playing the other half. What is the difference between that and playing it as one turn, joining the two turns together?

quote: Originally posted by Hercules Jamski makes good points. If you are now one unified grouping a la Germany a la Arab state, then you don't need two turns.

We could do it as one turn, but it makes no difference. We can move each unit one space, each base has one turn production. If we did it as one turn it would be the same.

quote: Originally posted by Hercules Second, if former PUT members decided to go their own away in the future, as it is a voluntary initiative by PUT, they should be allowed to do so.

There are only 2 PUT members, neither of which is particularly active. Archaic has the final say, as he runs this as a PBEM, so if he decides to ceed PUT to the CyCon, that is his choice. If I give my computer to someone, that is my choice. If I gave it to them, and then wanted it back, they would probably do so, but they would be under no obligation to.

	05-02-2004 02:38									#65
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quote: Imagine this. PUT decides to ceed all their bases to us (allowed). That is the same thing, in effect.

This is hardly fair then, is it? And don't feed me some line of krap about how you and the Uni have been buddy-buddy for years.

The fair thing is to self-destruct the Uni faction if they have had enough, and let any surviving members join the CyCon if they so wish.

-Jam

	05-02-2004 02:40									#66
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quote: Originally posted by Jamski The fair thing is to self-destruct the Uni faction if they have had enough, and let any surviving members join the CyCon if they so wish. -Jam

Why! Destroy such magnificient bases? If they want to gift them their choice - our happiness - other factions unhappiness

	05-02-2004 02:42									#67
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Yes, but HARDLY FAIR, really.

-Jam

	05-02-2004 02:51									#68
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It may not be fair, but its not against the rules.

	05-02-2004 02:51									#69
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Doublepost - sorry

Last edited by Illuminatus on 05-02-2004 at 03:02

	05-02-2004 03:00									#70
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Triplepost - sorry again

	05-02-2004 04:00									#71
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quote: Originally posted by Drogue We have two turns, but we only get one turn of base production, one of movement, etc, just split into two. It's like playing half your turn, and then stopping and playing the other half. What is the difference between that and playing it as one turn, joining the two turns together?

Erm, technological research? You can beeline with yourself! Now if that wasn´t unfair...

	05-02-2004 04:05									#72
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You can also beeline with yourself.
I presume you are talking about leapfrogging, but I don't see the difference. Assuming equal labs production, it doesn't make a difference whether or not your labs production is gathered in one faction or split over two. You'll still need to research the same techs. In fact, we will have more problems, as we have twice as much chance as you that a beeline can be interrupted due to mod3 rule interference.

	05-02-2004 16:23									#73
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quote: Originally posted by Jamski This is hardly fair then, is it? And don't feed me some line of krap about how you and the Uni have been buddy-buddy for years.

I'm not going to. Fair or not, it's the PUT's choice. If you wish to ceed your bases to another faction, you may. If another faction wishes to ceed theirs to you, they may. It's like giving a submissive ally all your techs, and units, etc. Some gift them bases too.

If you told a faction to ceed you a base or you'll declare war, and they do, should that be against the rules?

And it is fair, because we all live by the same rules. If you wish to do the same, you may. However if you do not wish to, that is your perogative. The rules are the same for everyone.

quote: Originally posted by Jamski The fair thing is to self-destruct the Uni faction if they have had enough, and let any surviving members join the CyCon if they so wish.

They don't wish to self destruct. Their faction, they decide their diplomacy. If they want to submit to another faction as a submissive ally, they can. Quite realistic actually.

quote: Originally posted by Micha Erm, technological research? You can beeline with yourself! Now if that wasn´t unfair...

As Maniac has answered, as can anyone. It doesn't matter if it's all your research or half yours and half someone elses.

Also, why does that differ from before the unification? We were beelining with PUT then, we are now. That hasn't changed.

	05-02-2004 18:05									#74
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All's fair in love and war, dear.

	06-02-2004 01:49									#75
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quote: Originally posted by Skanky Burns All's fair in love and war, dear.

The only reason why you dare saying this is 'cause his avatar is gone on the moment?

	06-02-2004 04:27									#76
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I said that around 8 hours before you checked his away status.

	06-02-2004 07:01									#77
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In a MP game you actually can't cede bases as you can in SP games. If you wish to do so a faction must vacate its base(s) and the faction taking over have to occupy the base(s), declaring vendetta while they are at it.

It is a long and tiresome process if ceding more than one base. If ceding all the bases, the surrendering faction cease after self destructing their own last base.

	06-02-2004 15:33									#78
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Herc: I was unaware we were using the rule of not ceding bases? I'm aware you can't cede your last, but I thought all others were allowed?

I may be wrong though

Last edited by Drogue on 06-02-2004 at 20:37

	06-02-2004 20:18									#79
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quote: Originally posted by Drogue Herc: I was unaware we were using the rule of not ceeding bases? I'm away you can't ceed your last, but I thought all others were allowed?

Drogue, you shouldn´t taste every single drink you pour in the CDA

	06-02-2004 20:39									#80
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quote: Originally posted by Micha Drogue, you shouldn´t taste every single drink you pour in the CDA

Actually, I really should

It's not a typo though. Since I never needed to spell it before, I presumed it would be like the usual English, where a long e sound is spelt as a double e, as in speed or need, whereas a single is, and in fled, is pronounced as a short e.

I typo less when drunk

	06-02-2004 22:51									#81
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I, for one, welcome the arrival of our new cybernetic lab rats friends.

	06-02-2004 23:19									#82
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I agree with those assessment that such "unification" benefits CPU in research and social engineering settings in that CPU can face less reseach costs when leapfroging researching and can benefit from different SE settings. The benefit is somewhat unbalanced compare to the real unifications of two teams, ie. when two teams becomes one, have one capital and one symbol. Also Hercules was right in saying that in MP one team cannot gift a base to anther team. The only thing you can do is to let the other team invade it and there will be costs associated with such invasion. The CPU "unification" appearantly has avoided this consequence.

Also, the CPU "unification" also appears to be superior to a permanant pact to the CyCons. In a perm pact the PUT will still have its own will and rans its own bases (and may even want to backstab and abandon the perm pact in a future time). While in our case the PUT bases are actually run by the CyCons and the CCs do not have to worry about anything that can rise inside the PUT. However, I believe this is similar to the case in an SP game when a faction surrender to another faction. You would be able to do the same thing above and the submissive faction will do whatever you want it to do. As long as the PUT members agrees, I do not think other teams can do anything about it.

In other words, I believe that although it is pretty tough for other teams, it is a truth that they have to face, and it's not something that is not allowed by the game rules.

	07-02-2004 01:49									#83
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Oh well... looks like we're stuck with CyUni forever then

-Jam

	07-02-2004 02:42									#84
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Keep in mind that PUT bases don't get the advantages of CyCon secret projects, so it's not like it are all advantages. A real unification into one faction would probably also be more advantagous for us for this reason (shared SP benefits), if it weren't for the fact that bases can't be traded between human players except by conquest (with heavy pop and infrastructure loss...)

	07-02-2004 03:09									#85
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I agree that's true too. Although to benefit from a CC SP would mean not benefiting from PUT's free nodes ...

But yes you are right. Anything has two sides.

	07-02-2004 06:13									#86
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The effic bonus from splitting the bases between two factions is the killer.

-Jam