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Bereta_Eder
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Fascism is a distinct ideology also known as far right. There are defining characteristics for it.
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chegitz guevara
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Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Tripledoc
What about Turkey? Has there not been some fascist periods in Turkish history? |
I would say no. Right-wing authoritiarianism, even genocidal right-wing authoritarianism, does not fascism make. In the case of Turkey, most of the essential requirements for fascism are missing: movment of the ruined middle class and lumpen proletariet, support of the capitalist class, industrialized society, etc.
Ecthilion.
quote:
Does capitalism not have an idea of man, a world picture, and a theory of cognition? |
No, no, and no.
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Bereta_Eder
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I think capitalism does have a cosmotheory and a view of man. A very bleak one at that but it does.
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Bereta_Eder
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Namely that man is by nature greedy and self centered etc
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Ecthy
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Zhonghuà Rénmín Gònghéguó
Mar 2000
time: 06:33
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paiktis says it, it has one
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Bereta_Eder
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I think capitalism is an ideology. It is a system of operating and viewing the world just as much as socialism is. In fact capitalism and liberalism and/or conservatism are practically identical when compared to socialism.
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Ecthy
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Zhonghuà Rénmín Gònghéguó
Mar 2000
time: 06:33
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a planned economy has no idea of man, therefore is not an ideology.
shi's system is wrong tho.
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Bereta_Eder
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Behind each economic system there lies a fundamental view of man which differs frome achother (actually it's the compelte opposite) and economic systems are based on the way of viewing man.
For example, capitalism (liberalism, conservatism etc) claims that man is greedy and self centered by nature. Thus the economic model chosen is one of personal initiative, "harvesting" the greed etc
Communism in its foundations believes that man is by nature benevolent and helping, caring. The economic system which evolves from that theory of viewing man is one of collectivity, shared resources etc.
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Tripledoc
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Regarding Fascism in Turkey: I think it is correct that Turkey is not a Fascist state per se. However within the Turkish state there is a powerful Fascist organisation, commonly know as the Gray Wolves. They are employed by the state as assassins, agents provocateurs, and in certain military echelons. These are trained by the German intelligence and US advisors. Also many governors in the the Kurdish areas in Turkey are members of the Grey Wolves organisation.
The ideology of the Grey Wolves is racist and imperial. They believe in a Turkey from 'the Balkans to the Chinese Wall'. All citizens within must either assimilate into being Turks or be exterminated.
It is questionable if there has been a Fascist mobilization of the Turkish middle classes. However it is interesting to note the international nature of present day Fascism. In some ways the Turkish Fascist are really an extension of NATO.
Grey Wolves
http://users.westnet.gr/~cgian/turkish_fascism.htm
The Contra-Guerrilla Force
http://www.ozgurluk.org/mhp/0061.html
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Cruddy
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Fascists - those who believe the maintenance of law and order requires violence at all times.
From fasces a latin word for a bundle of sticks used for corporal punishment.
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Sava
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GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:33
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Capitalism itself does not have this view. Various ideologies of capitalism have this view, but by no means all of them. |
paiktis's explanation is wrong, don't confuse it with mine..
quote:
Sava has still failed to show how his definitions support his argument. |
to you perhaps... but I don't need to support my argument. There is no ARGUMENT. I'm stating a fact. You are denying the fact... that's not my problem.
from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capita..._as_an_ideology
quote:
Capitalism as an ideology
As with many common words, and most particularly ideologically laden words, "capitalism" has many meanings. There can be great confusion amongst these meanings, and readers must be careful of which meaning a writer intends in any particular usage.
"Capitalism" as a phenomenon (the system of the private ownership of capital goods) is certainly different from "capitalism" as an ideology (the philosophical advocacy of that system). Moreover, the precise ideology meant by "capitalism" in the latter sense differs: what a Marxist or Green may describe as capitalist ideology may seem thoroughly alien to what a classical liberal means by calling himself a capitalist, and vice versa.
Opponents of capitalism sometimes deny that these represent subtantially different things, or say they go hand-in-hand. This criticism is often founded upon the Marxist idea that ideology is largely a consequence of underlying economic realities -- or the simplification thereof which holds that people favor ideologies which justify their behavior or privilege.
Although it is arguable whether these meanings the word "capitalism" of the same kind are somehow "equivalent" under someone's subjective notion of equivalence, for the sake of not making a straw man argument when accusing someone else to be a proponent of capitalism, these different concepts must be clearly distinguished.
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from www.capitalism.org
quote:
1. What is capitalism?
Capitalism is a social system based on the principle of individual rights. The term capitalism is used here in the broader philosophical political sense, and not in the narrower economic sense, i.e. a free-market.
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che... PLEASE ADMIT YOU ARE WRONG and stop making a fool of yourself. 
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Bereta_Eder
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Capitalism itself does not have this view. Various ideologies of capitalism have this view, but by no means all of them.
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Actually that's the very basis of capitalism. Unless we're using a different interpretation of the term.
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