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Kropotkin
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of Ålidhem
Mar 1999
time: 06:33
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quote:
Then this is no point at all. Why even bring it up? That's like saying some people say Scandinavian when others say Swede. |
I explained this earlier.
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You wrote your sentence in such a way that the only way it could be interpreted as if you meant that fascists and nazis are two different things. It is not my fault you meant something other than you wrote and then continued to defend it. All nazis are fascists, so there is no reason not to use the two terms interchangably. |
It's not my fault you interpet the text in a way you find suitable. My point was that some people tend to use the one of the other for the same thing.
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Superficial debate, maybe. I don't think it's all that worthwhile debating the rhetorical differences between the Nazis and the Fascists. |
Well some people obviously do. That some people think that there's a distinction between the essence of fascism and nazism while others -like you- are the opinion that they are one and the same might actually say something. Some people want to see the world as black and white, others chose to see shades of gray. But I wasn't really interested in this debate.
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I mean the USA. And I didn't say you were a moron. I said your statement was utter crap, because it relied on two untrue positions. |
No, you didn't call me a moron. I was being somewhat sarcastic. And (if it's actually possible to understand wich two positions was untrue but I'm guessing. It's kind of hard as my first response was a comment to 'utter crap') a) I'm basing my opinion that the use of the word fascism is mostly used by socialists on a number of observations from a number of countries, that hardly makes it an untrue position. You yourself point to the stalinst use of the word in you latest post. Furthermore, you make some bizzare leaps when it comes to what I'm actually saying. And b) when it comes to the use of diamat visavi fascism, there's plenty of strange and obscure arguments. But all this is really boring me. My original point was and is that the word fascism has gotten a much broader meaning today and this is partly, at least, due to marxists and other socialists first and foremost but also other people.
Last edited by Kropotkin on 03-02-2004 at 17:36
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chegitz guevara
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Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:33
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Originally posted by DaShi
The type of communism you describe has never been witnessed by the world. |
I suggest you pay more attention to the parenthetical remarks.
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The two largest communist nations (USSR and PRC) were neither egalitarian nor democratic. |
Both the USSR and the PRC were far more egalitarian than any other society. The people at the very top of the USSR made only seven times what the average Soviet worker made (though they also had some nice perks). Andropov, for example, lived in an apartment building, with other normal Soviets. And the Soviets weer democratic at the very beginning, though it didn't last long.
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They both used violence as an action and a threat and were extemely aggressive. |
Neither the USSR nor the PRC were exceptionally aggresive. Compared to the imperialist powers, they were practically timid. The United State alone has attacked, invaded, intervened, or overthrown close to 50 countries since 1945. The USSR, just seven. China, five, if you accept Tibet as a seperate country and not a rebellious province.
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The problem is that these countries ran around calling themselves communists. So it is not surprising that countries like the US saw communism as a threat at the time |
The US saw the USSR and PRC as threats not because of what they did but because of what they were. Their very existences were threats to the established order of imperialism. Every minute they continued to exist, they represented an alternative to slaving away to some foreign capitalist for the third world. Those countries, a flawed as they were, inspired millions around the world to demand their own freedom from colonialism, imperialism, and capitalism. In Western Europe, governments were forced to provide unheard of social benefits in order to keep thei own workers from revolting.
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Anti-communist propaganda was so easy to sell to the American public (and still is). |
Anything is easy to sell to the American public. Look at the BS war we just fought. As P.T.Barnum said, no one ever went broke underestimatnig the good taste of the American public.
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Those countries have defined communism negatively. In the minds of most people, this is what they think of when they hear communism. |
Irrelevent to this discussion.
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I think in order to have a constructive debate about communism, there needs to be a consensus on what communism actually is. |
This was a discussion as to the differences between fascists and communists. The fact that the Communists seek to establish egalitarian and democratic societies (even if they failed), is a real difference from those would seek to abolish democracy and create a society where some are fit to rule and others to serve (and others to die). Even in failure, the Communists have to pay lip service to their ideals. The Fascists didn't even do this.
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Tripledoc
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quote:
Originally posted by GePap
A basic difference between Communism and facism is the method by which men form ther conciousness-and what type of solidarity is more important. |
Do you mean that both fascists and communists see life as struggle or conflict, however while the communist sees the capitalist-worker conflict as the focus of his fight, the fascists sees the nation-nation struggle as his? The type of solidarity one sees among fascists resembles the warband, while to the communists it is the labor union.
So why is there this variation in consciousness?
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Ecthy
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Zhonghuà Rénmín Gònghéguó
Mar 2000
time: 06:33
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welcome to triple figures
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Serb
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Siberia, Communist party of Apolyton
Nov 2001
time: 11:33
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Ooops, I forget to add the flag (it's my third beer). Here it is. Enjoy, you capitalist pigs.
 Attachment: ussr_flag.gif
This has been downloaded 48 time(s).
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Serb
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Siberia, Communist party of Apolyton
Nov 2001
time: 11:33
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Che, we have to include this guy in our party. He don't know a thing about superiority of Russian military hardware, but he seems to think in right direction about ideology.
Cruddy-
Last edited by Serb on 04-02-2004 at 19:54
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Serb
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Siberia, Communist party of Apolyton
Nov 2001
time: 11:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Cruddy
In terms of numbers of people dead, deported, and depressed, Communism is clearly not acceptable...
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I guess you are talking about Stalinism, not communism. Anyhow, I believe that more people were slain, deported and depressed uder capitalism and it's highest form- imperialism, than during Stalinism.
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Also, Communism doesn't really allow for human expression - it expects people to be "perfect" and punishes them harshly when the just act according to their nature. |
Really? Is it in human nature to be selfish bastard f*ck?
Then what the difference between humans and animals?
I believe that humans are something more than animals, that they can feel the difference between what's good and what is wrong, that they can feel the pain of other human being.
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At least, as far as I understand these things - anyway, why you so down on Capitalism? Isn't Russia Capitalist now? |
No, actually everything is much worse here.
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I'm not saying Capitilism isn't evil... but it's not as extreme as those other belief systems. |
You're living in a fantasy world then. Join Apolyton Communist party and we will open your eyes.
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Cruddy
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quote:
Originally posted by Serb
You're living in a fantasy world then. Join Apolyton Communist party and we will open your eyes. |
Well, I generally love parties... but my social calendar is rather full for a while.
Anyway, my physical eyes are not what I'm trying to open - trying to get my third eye up and running.
RV'do!
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Serb
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Siberia, Communist party of Apolyton
Nov 2001
time: 11:33
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We'll open your third eye then.
Forget about those silly physical and mental exercises.
Join Apolyton Commuinst Party now, and you'll see the world in different light using your new, x-ray, latest technology, third eye!!! And you'll get a video tape expalining how to use it proterly for the good of all humanity. FOR FREE!!! And it's not all. If you'll make a call now, we we'll also include a forth eye for you as well!!!
Call us now, untill our sepecial offer still works. You'll get a third eye, a forth eye and we will also include a video tape, just for you.
You we'll never regret about you decision!!!
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Apolyton Time is 00:33. |
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03-02-2004 02:50
I've a fancy looking flag. 
Get it, fastest/fascist?
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