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The Emperor Fabulous is offline The Emperor Fabulous
Warlord
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Aug 1999
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  Old Post 04-02-2004 21:57
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Massachusetts High Court rules same-sex couples entitled to marry Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

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chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
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Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
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  Old Post 04-02-2004 21:57 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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Sweet!

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
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Sep 1999
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  Old Post 04-02-2004 21:58
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Again?

JohnT is offline JohnT

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  Old Post 04-02-2004 21:59
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http://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/02/04/g...e.ap/index.html

Massachusetts high court: Same-sex couples entitled to marry

quote:
BOSTON, Massachusetts (AP) -- The Massachusetts high court ruled Wednesday that only full, equal marriage rights for gay couples -- rather than civil unions -- would be constitutional, erasing any doubts that the nation's first same-sex marriages could take place in the state beginning in mid-May.

The court issued the opinion in response to a request from the state Senate about whether Vermont-style civil unions, which convey the state benefits of marriage -- but not the title -- would meet constitutional muster.

"The history of our nation has demonstrated that separate is seldom, if ever, equal," the four justices who ruled in favor of gay marriage wrote in the advisory opinion. A bill that would allow for civil unions, but falls short of marriage, makes for "unconstitutional, inferior, and discriminatory status for same-sex couples."

The much-anticipated opinion sets the stage for next Wednesday's constitutional convention, where the Legislature will consider an amendment that would legally define marriage as a union between one man and one woman. Without the opinion, Senate President Robert Travaglini had said the vote would be delayed.

The soonest a constitutional amendment could end up on the ballot would be 2006, meaning that until then, the high court's decision will be Massachusetts law no matter what is decided at the constitutional convention.

The Supreme Judicial Court ruled in November that same-sex couples have a constitutional right to marry, and gave the Legislature six months to change state laws to make it happen.

But almost immediately, the vague wording of the ruling left lawmakers -- and advocates on both side of the issue -- uncertain if Vermont-style civil unions would satisfy the court's decision.

The state Senate asked for more guidance from the court and sought the advisory opinion, which was made public Wednesday morning when it was read into the Senate record.

When it was issued in November, the 4-3 ruling set off a firestorm of protest across the country among politicians, religious leaders and others opposed to providing landmark rights for gay couples to marry.

President Bush immediately denounced the decision and vowed to pursue legislation to protect the traditional definition of marriage. Church leaders in the heavily Roman Catholic state also pressed their parishioners to oppose efforts to allow gays to marry.

And legislators were prepared to vote on a proposed amendment to the state constitution that would seek to make the court's ruling moot by defining as marriage as a union between one man and one woman -- thus expressly making same-sex marriages illegal in Massachusetts.

What the case represented, both sides agree, was a significant new milestone in a year that has seen broad new recognitions of gay rights in America, Canada and abroad, including a June U.S. Supreme Court decision striking a Texas ban on gay sex.

Legal experts, however, said that the long-awaited decision, while clearly stating that it is unconstitutional to bar gay couples from marriage, gave ambiguous instructions to the state Legislature.

Lawmakers remained uncertain if civil unions went far enough to live up to the court's ruling -- or if actual marriages were required.

When a similar decision was issued in Vermont in 1999, the court told the Legislature that it could allow gay couples to marry or create a parallel institution that conveys all the state rights and benefits of marriage. The Legislature chose the second route, leading to the approval of civil unions in that state.

The Massachusetts decision made no mention of an alternative solution, but instead pointed to a recent decision in Ontario, Canada, that changed the common law definition of marriage to include same-sex couples and led to the issuance of marriage licenses there.

The state "has failed to identify any constitutionally adequate reason for denying civil marriage to same-sex couples," the court wrote. "Barred access to the protections, benefits and obligations of civil marriage, a person who enters into an intimate, exclusive union with another of the same sex is arbitrarily deprived of membership in one of our community's most rewarding and cherished institutions."

The Massachusetts case began in 2001, when seven gay couples went to their city and town halls to obtain marriage licenses. All were denied, leading them to sue the state Department of Public Health, which administers the state's marriage laws.

A Suffolk Superior Court judge threw out the case in 2002, ruling that nothing in state law gives gay couples the right to marry. The couples immediately appealed to the Supreme Judicial Court, which heard arguments in March.

The plaintiffs argued that barring them from marrying a partner of the same sex denied them access to an intrinsic human experience and violated basic constitutional rights.

During the past decade, Massachusetts' high court has expanded the legal parameters of family, ruling that same-sex couples can adopt children and devising child visitation right for a former partner of a lesbian.

Massachusetts has one of the highest concentrations of gay households in the country with at 1.3 percent of the total number of coupled households, according to the 2000 census. In California, 1.4 percent of the coupled households are occupied by same-sex partners. Vermont and New York also registered at 1.3 percent, while in Washington, D.C., the rate is 5.1 percent

Brundlefly is offline Brundlefly
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United States
Nov 2001
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  Old Post 04-02-2004 22:08
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"same-sex couples entitled to marry "

Isn't this redundant? I thought marriage was about two people having the same-sex over and over again.

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
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Nov 2001
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  Old Post 04-02-2004 22:08
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It's good to see there are sane places in the US

Sava is offline Sava
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Mar 2001
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  Old Post 04-02-2004 22:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Spiffor
It's good to see there are sane places in the US
w00t! I'm happy about this because it's going to piss off the gay-hating religious bigots in my country. They are really angry people.

ixnay is offline ixnay
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  Old Post 04-02-2004 22:11 Visit ixnay<br><img src=/forums/images/staff-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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This is excellent news.

East Street Trader is offline East Street Trader
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Jun 2000
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  Old Post 04-02-2004 22:18
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I would be interested to know what people living in a settled homosexual or lesbian relationship have to say about the bringing up of children.

My instincts suggest that it would be more awkward doing so as a married couple as compared to doing so as a homosexual or lesbian couple not using that title.

Because references to a family based on marriage carry the inevitable inbuilt assumption - accurate up to now - that there is a father and a mother.

Using the same term for a homosexual/lesbian relationship lands the child with getting their head round being a special case. Which I think would be hard work. And un-necessarily muddling.

But maybe a homosexual or lesbian couple with experience of bringing up children would have a different take on this.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
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  Old Post 04-02-2004 22:22
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quote:
I thought marriage was about two people having the same-sex over and over again.


Japher is offline Japher
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Jun 2002
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  Old Post 04-02-2004 22:25
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This is horrible news for the well-being of all Americans (except them gays, and MrFuns). Now that the sanctity of marriage has been tarnished by them homos everything will have to change... Like, uh... hmmm... ah... Well you know, things in stuff. The important things and stuff, like how much I love my wife. That is all changing because of this! Don't you see it!!!



i don't

St Leo is offline St Leo
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Jul 2005
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  Old Post 04-02-2004 22:41 Visit St Leo<br><img src=/forums/images/staff-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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MrFun is offline MrFun
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Nov 2000
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  Old Post 04-02-2004 23:36 Visit MrFun's homepage!
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Barinthus is offline Barinthus
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Jan 2004
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  Old Post 04-02-2004 23:50
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Excellent, it's overdue. At my university there's high number of homosexual staff and facility compared to other universities. So to avoid denying benefits normally granted to married couples (insurance, etc) to a large slice of the working community, the university has extended those benefits to employees and their partners. While this meant that same-sex couples can enjoy same benefits that married couples receive, heterosexual non-married couples also can qualify for those benefits.

So perhaps as more and more states start to legalize homosexual marriage, we will see a major social change in the States... social engineering of sorts .

As for children raised by homosexual couples, it's no big deal really. I have few friends who grew up in same-sex households and they're just like us. And the shocking thing is that not all of them end up homosexuals themselves like some people fretted about.

Anyway, it'll be rough for a while but I hope this is here to stay.

Gibsie is offline Gibsie
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Jan 1970
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  Old Post 04-02-2004 23:53
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It is now only a matter of time before they let people marry animals.

Swissy is offline Swissy
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Sep 1999
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  Old Post 04-02-2004 23:56
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The Mass court did no such thing. They ordered the Mass legislature to make a law legalizing gay marriage. IMHO a very round-about way of doing things and the legislature may not do it and throw the ball back to the court and say"you do it cause we aren't going to , as we have to face the voters". Nobody wants to be the body that actually makes it legal, makes you wonder why?

MrFun is offline MrFun
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  Old Post 04-02-2004 23:58 Visit MrFun's homepage!
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Who the hell is Swissy?? Where did he/she come from?

Flubber is offline Flubber
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Aug 2000
time: 22:33
  Old Post 05-02-2004 00:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Gibsie
It is now only a matter of time before they let people marry animals.




ya because thats exactly the same

Flubber is offline Flubber
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  Old Post 05-02-2004 00:13
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I find it interesting that places like Mass. and Vermont are leading the way on these issues. I used to have an impression of those states as being more conservative.

My hope is that other states come on board . . . It may very well be that in 20 years, homosexual union/marriage ( I don't care what you call it as long as it brings the same rights and responsibilities) will be accepted and children growing up would be suprised to learn there had ever been a fuss about the issue

debeest is offline debeest
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May 2000
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  Old Post 05-02-2004 00:15
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quote:
Originally posted by East Street Trader
I would be interested to know what people living in a settled homosexual or lesbian relationship have to say about the bringing up of children.



I have quite a few gay and lesbian friends, including quite a few raising children.

There obviously are special challenges, almost all of which derive from the attitudes of society and other individuals. I've never discussed the issue with any of them -- I don't think their think sexuality is any more appropriate a discussion topic than my own is -- but I have the clear impression that the challenges are no greater than the challenges of other kinds that most of the rest of us face.

The sooner people and society can get their minds around the fact that not everyone is the same, the sooner being different will cease to be a problem.

JohnT is offline JohnT

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  Old Post 05-02-2004 00:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Flubber
I find it interesting that places like Mass. and Vermont are leading the way on these issues. I used to have an impression of those states as being more conservative.




!

Taxachusetts (sp) and the only state to elect a Socialist to national office "conservative"?

mindseye is offline mindseye
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Apr 1999
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  Old Post 05-02-2004 00:21
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Barinthus is offline Barinthus
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  Old Post 05-02-2004 00:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Flubber
I find it interesting that places like Mass. and Vermont are leading the way on these issues. I used to have an impression of those states as being more conservative.

My hope is that other states come on board . . . It may very well be that in 20 years, homosexual union/marriage ( I don't care what you call it as long as it brings the same rights and responsibilities) will be accepted and children growing up would be suprised to learn there had ever been a fuss about the issue


. While true New England states (sorry, I don't consider Connecticut and Rhodes Island part of this club) are rich in history, generally the population is young especially in Massachusetts. Boston at the first appear to be conversative but it's actually a liberal city.

Jac de Molay is offline Jac de Molay
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  Old Post 05-02-2004 00:29
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Uh oh. Next thing you know, they're going to convert all of our children to homosexualism.

Somebody should think of the children.

Flubber is offline Flubber
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Aug 2000
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  Old Post 05-02-2004 00:40
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quote:
Originally posted by JohnT



!

Taxachusetts (sp) and the only state to elect a Socialist to national office "conservative"?



I had heard the taxachussets label before but still when we are talking places like Boston, the ( obviously erroneous) impression to an outsider is old familes with old money and conservative values ( even if they have liberal spending).

Vermont, the impression is of a rural setting and typically rural folks are more conservative than urban folks ( blanket stereotyping).

Obviously both impressions are incorrect but again by seat of the pants impressions, I would have expected California, Hawaii or a another highly urbanized state to be more in the forefront that those two. Again just goes to show how wrong impressions based on scant information can be.

DaShi is offline DaShi
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The Taste of Japan
Sep 2000
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  Old Post 05-02-2004 00:43
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Sweet!


So it's no longer illegal, huh?

St Leo is offline St Leo
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quote:
Originally posted by JohnT
! Taxachusetts (sp) and the only state to elect a Socialist to national office "conservative"?


What? This is absolute slander. Massachusets is nothing like Texas.

Shi Huangdi is offline Shi Huangdi
Emperor
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Apr 1999
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  Old Post 05-02-2004 02:05
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People celebrating this ruling should think twice. They were asking if a civil unions type deal would be allowable, a compromise measure. Now, Massachustes has only two option: amend the State Constitution to make marriage defined as something between a man and a woman, or accept gay marriage. The State was leaning towards the former before, this ruling will likely force their hand.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
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  Old Post 05-02-2004 02:08 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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It's gonna be two years before they can vote on it. That's enough time to bring a case to the SCOTUS. A couple gets married, crosses state lines, and forces another state to recognize the marriage or go to court. WOOT!

Shi Huangdi is offline Shi Huangdi
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  Old Post 05-02-2004 02:13
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It'll take two years before they can vote on an amendment to ban gay marriage? State procedural rule?

 
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