05-02-2004 02:23									#61
	Support Apolyton

quote: There is no specific right to employment, let alone to employment in any chosen profession. If one has an objection to part of a job requirement, the choice is simple - don't do the job, or do the job someplace else where the job requirements fit your views.

So, IOW:

don't sell chainsaws if your a tree hugger.

don't sell guns if your animal rights activist.

Basically, this guy is unable to perform his job and should probably go into research.

	05-02-2004 02:27									#62
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Oh Ben, shame on you...

	05-02-2004 02:45									#63
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

This pharmacist should be fired, banned from the profession, and then raped in prison and denied treatment for whatever troubles he has because that would be interfering with the Lord's Will.

	05-02-2004 02:46									#64
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I don't like this thread

but I still like Ben

	05-02-2004 02:47									#65
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Ben:

I have now put you on ignore. You are an assh0le. Despite all your rethorics, you completely disregard the suffering of people, and you are now only another bigot.

Be gone from my screen!

	05-02-2004 02:48									#66
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Arrian You may not think so, but you are. At least in my eyes. This is the latest in a string of threads recently that has reduced my opinion of you to about a hair above my opinion of Bods (aka Park Avenue). At least Fez was reactionary in an amusing way. -Arrian

I'm thinking along similar lines, I guess in regards to Bennie.

I would like to think that Bennie is a much more decent person than other unamed Apolytoners, but with this thread, I'm more and more disappointed.

	05-02-2004 02:55									#67
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

I'd say that's close minded, religious hating bigotry there - spiff. Hope you have the proper "rethoric" to back such up

	05-02-2004 02:56									#68
	Put an end to popups!

Well, Ben's still more mature than the name-callers and "You suck so much that I'm dedicating 15 minutes of my life to write a post about you" people in this thread.

Guys, a mature "bigot" is still better than an immature person even if they're correct.

	05-02-2004 03:02									#69
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by mrmitchell Guys, a mature "bigot" is still better than an immature person even if they're correct.

Well, not really.

BUT- I do think some people are overreacting to Ben's views. Fine, i find them moronic myself in this case, but heck, he isn't advocating for anyone's death, only incorreclty thinking that this is in any way a case in which personal opinions have any bearing.

So lets tone down the 'outrage'. Just know Ben though, that is seems universally clear that people think you are wrong in this case.

	05-02-2004 03:03									#70
	Tired of ads?

quote: If you go that far, why not object to even working in a store which sells contraceptives? Even to married couples, if you're Catholic, as humanae vitae and subsequent statements by the church take the clear position that sex must be "open to the transmission of life" - so even barrier methods which do not allow post fertilization "issues" are technically prohibited (although a huge number of Catholics disregard that little detail of church doctrine)

Excellent point. I would object to a job requirement that requires a Catholic pharmacist to prescribe birth control, as well as the morning after pill. Surely, they could pass these onto another pharmacist who would be willing to do so, thus respecting the freedom of conscience of the pharmacist.

Sad though, that no one has addressed one of my points. How does the morning after pill treat rape? Does it make the woman feel better about herself? Why do we prescribe powerful drugs if they do not help the woman?

	05-02-2004 03:04									#71
	Got spare money?

doublepost

	05-02-2004 03:07									#72
	Remove this text

I live in Denton. But I don't work at Eckerd's.

	05-02-2004 03:10									#73
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi Sad though, that no one has addressed one of my points. How does the morning after pill treat rape? Does it make the woman feel better about herself? Why do we prescribe powerful drugs if they do not help the woman?

You can't understand because you are NOT a woman. There's a chance, because rape, if you're not sure, is placing your sexual organ in contact with another's, where penetration is involved.

Penetration = Chance of Birth

Do you want to have the baby of a man who raped you?

Further more, the morning after pill is a lot less harsh for a woman than an abortion, and if all the pharmacists had "moral issues" with giving the pill, THAT'S what she'd get.

Explained enuf 4 u?

	05-02-2004 03:13									#74
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Oh, and Ben, unlike England, pharmacists don't perscribe anything. Only doctors can perscribe. They are legally (note: by the state) required to fill any and all perscriptions that a licensed doctor requested. If they do not perscribe, the FDA revokes their (the pharmacy's) license.

	05-02-2004 03:14									#75
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi Is such a requirement constitutional, because it effectively bars Catholics in particular from working as pharmacists without a violation to their conscience.

It would also effectively ban them from working in abortion clinics, or brothels (where legal), or condom manufacturers, or family planning clinics, or anywhere else where they disagree with the work in practice.

If you can't do the job for moral reasons, then don't do it. Providing drugs that a doctor has prescribed is the job of a pharmacist. If he can't do it, find a new job.

	05-02-2004 03:19									#76
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi Excellent point. I would object to a job requirement that requires a Catholic pharmacist to prescribe birth control, as well as the morning after pill. Surely, they could pass these onto another pharmacist who would be willing to do so, thus respecting the freedom of conscience of the pharmacist.

No. It's part of the job description of being a pharmacist. Providing the drugs prescribed by the doctor. If he can't do that, he shouldn't be a pharmacist.

quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi Sad though, that no one has addressed one of my points. How does the morning after pill treat rape? Does it make the woman feel better about herself? Why do we prescribe powerful drugs if they do not help the woman?

Because it gives her peace of mind, that she won't get pregnant. That would prolong the hurt, as it would remind her of the rape. Having his child would also be a constant reminder of it, as well as the resentment she may feel towards the child of someone who has abused her in such a way.

It doesn't make her feel better, it stops her feeling worse. It gives her some closure and helps her to move on.

	05-02-2004 03:22									#77
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi Excellent point. I would object to a job requirement that requires a Catholic pharmacist to prescribe birth control, as well as the morning after pill. Surely, they could pass these onto another pharmacist who would be willing to do so, thus respecting the freedom of conscience of the pharmacist.

The question is how far should a private employer be forced to go to accommodate the indirect ideological or "moral" preferences of employees. Political expression is also protected under the First Amendment, as is freedom of religion. So should employers have to accomodate the "moral" views of Libertarian cashiers and bookkeepers who consider taxation to be a form of theft? What about a run of the mill political conservative who believes that welfare is immoral, and thus wants to refuse to accept payment or otherwise deal with people paying by EBT or food stamps or similar?

The employer is not forcing the employee to do anything which is not a reasonably foreseeable part of the job description in either case, so if the employee objects, why should the employer be forced to make concessions to an individual's preferences?

quote: Sad though, that no one has addressed one of my points. How does the morning after pill treat rape? Does it make the woman feel better about herself? Why do we prescribe powerful drugs if they do not help the woman?

Come on, Ben - you're smarter than to play semantic games. Pregnancy and STD transmission are both possible consequences of rape. The morning after pill treats a foreseeable consequence, just as prophylactic antibiotic treatment would likely be used if the rapist was known to carry a specific STD - would you wait until it was confirmed that the woman had positive indications of the STD before you'd give treatment? Would you rather see if pregnancy occurred, then consider abortion? The whole goal of the treatment is to prevent a direct consequence of the rape, which consequence could not occur otherwise at that time.

	05-02-2004 03:32									#78
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Say it was a private pharamacy... then I think the guy has every right to refuse to give certain perscriptions. However, working for Eckards, when their company policy goes against this, he cannot.

Imran is always available, when it comes to defend to right to be a scumbag.

	05-02-2004 03:34									#79
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Oncle Boris Imran is always available, when it comes to defend to right to be a scumbag.

And you are always available, when it comes to defend the right to be an idiot.

	05-02-2004 03:38									#80
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

oooh . . . . .

let me get my bag of popcorn to munch on, while I watch this

	05-02-2004 03:49									#81
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Oncle Boris Imran is always available, when it comes to defend to right to be a scumbag.

And where did he do that? He was defending the right of a private firm to make it's own decisions (assuming the guy was the sole proprietor of said company). It's his own throat he slits then if the guy makes dumb decisions.

	05-02-2004 03:58									#82
	Remove this text

If he can't do his job, he should leave it. He is being paid to give people their prescriptions, not impose his morality upon them. If he's not doing his job, he should not be paid.

Furthermore, his behaviour is horrifying, I should hope that attempts are made to rectify such "morality" via education.

	05-02-2004 04:02									#83
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: providing the drugs prescribed by the doctor. If he can't do that, he shouldn't be a pharmacist.

So why do we train them if they are just pill pushers?

	05-02-2004 04:03									#84
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Whaleboy Furthermore, his behaviour is horrifying, I should hope that attempts are made to rectify such "morality" via education.

	05-02-2004 04:11									#85
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Scumbag. And that goes for you too, Ben.

Let me second that.

	05-02-2004 04:13									#86
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

MtG:

quote: The question is how far should a private employer be forced to go to accommodate the indirect ideological or "moral" preferences of employees. Political expression is also protected under the First Amendment, as is freedom of religion. So should employers have to accomodate the "moral" views of Libertarian cashiers and bookkeepers who consider taxation to be a form of theft? What about a run of the mill political conservative who believes that welfare is immoral, and thus wants to refuse to accept payment or otherwise deal with people paying by EBT or food stamps or similar?

Considering both of your examples. How can the libertarian be held personally responsible, by his own beliefs, by charging a tax on an item? He is not personally benefiting from the tax. As for the conservative opposed to welfare, would it be better to let that person starve, or to accept their payment with food stamps? I would think that their philosophy would give them a stark option of either charity, or accepting their food stamps. Since he cannot offer charity to compensate for all of these people, he has no option but to give the food stamps.

Now, compare this to our example. A Catholic, who dispenses the morning after pill, would consider themselves to be an accessory to murder. True, the pill may not cause an abortion, but the purpose of the pill is to prevent the implantation of the unborn child. There is no other purpose for the drug. That to me should seem considerably different grounds than even my own contraceptive example to allow for freedom of conscience.

quote: Pregnancy and STD transmission are both possible consequences of rape.

That's a seriously questionable analogy, MtG. Are you claiming that pregnancy is a medical condition like an STD?

	05-02-2004 04:15									#87
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi So why do we train them if they are just pill pushers?

To recognize when doses might be to large for someone, when the medicines prescribed might cause problems taken together, so forth.

What you fail to recognize is that pharmacist have to fill legal and safe prescriptions form doctors if they have those drug on hand. This guy knew that long before. If he had problems with the possibilities, he should have quit. He failed to do his job. He is lucky he was only preprimanded and not summarely fired.

	05-02-2004 04:18									#88
	Remove this text

Drogue:

quote: Because it gives her peace of mind, that she won't get pregnant.

It will not repair the psychological injury of rape. She needs counselling, not a 'magic pill.'

quote: Having his child would also be a constant reminder of it, as well as the resentment she may feel towards the child of someone who has abused her in such a way.

Presumes that the mother must raise the child. This is not necessarily the case as I am sure there will be plenty of others who would be willing to adopt the child.

quote: It doesn't make her feel better, it stops her feeling worse.

And would pregnancy after rape necessarily make her feel worse or better? Some women say that their child is the only good thing to come out of the whole sordid ordeal.

quote: It gives her some closure and helps her to move on.

Closure? What if the rapist goes unpunished?

	05-02-2004 04:21									#89
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: This guy knew that long before.

How long has this been company policy? The article does not say.

	05-02-2004 04:23									#90
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi How long has this been company policy? The article does not say.

Hello! Its the LAW for license pharmacists-he is licensed, he had to know the law, hence he KNEW when he became a phamacist.

God, you can be dense!