10-02-2004 13:26									#1
	Starting tech analysis? Remove this text

In a number of old posts there has been refernce to the fact that Civ 2 allocates more starting techs to a player if it considers that the player's staring position is bad.

Has anyone ever posted an analysis of the factors that influence the allocation of starting techs? If so, could someone post a link for me? If not, is anyone aware of precisely what these factors are or what is the alogirithm for allocation of starting techs?

(The number of staring techs profoundly affects ongoing research costs. Maybe we've all been focused on ELGs with no starting techs and no huts in recent times. In the last week or so, I've gone back to playing with the starting tech issue, mostly by tiral and error. As with all things associated with Civ 2, the alogirthm appears to me to have some hidden subtleties.)

Any suggestions?

	10-02-2004 15:17									#2
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Well distance from nearest civ is a major one, although I'm sure that this only applies if the civ is on the same continent as you are.
Remember that the rating given to your start position, and hence the number of techs you'll receive, depends upon the AI. This means that you will get a better rated start spot and fewer techs if there are lots of grassland squares about because the AI will refuse to build a city unless there is sufficient growth potential without irrigation or harbours. I've got a feeling that the AI will include food specials in its assessment, but not trade or production specials, although am not certain of this.

	10-02-2004 18:29									#3
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Yes, there have been many threads speculating about this but the most recent one. (which I can't find at the moment) seemed to nail it. Ever since reading it, I can predict with very high probablility whether I'll have techs when I see my opening screen. Our MP games are on small worlds so usually every one starts on the same continent so that factor was removed.

I can't remember if that thread was here or in the MP forum.

	10-02-2004 18:35									#4
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Yeah, remember that too. I just got back from (unsuccessfully) searching for that thread. If it was in this forum in the past year, it had a deceptive thread title.

Too bad, because there was some good detail on the topic of what the AI considers to be "good" and "bad" re start location -- and how that varies from the way the masters play the game.

But here's a little something -- Great Library thread on starting techs.

	10-02-2004 19:28									#5
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For what its worth, we first played EL games, etc, with many starting techs, 6-8 including Monarchy. If you are interested in maps with that kind of head start there are posts like that too. Is this what you are hinting at??

Monk

	10-02-2004 20:02									#6
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cheaters

	10-02-2004 20:05									#7
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Can't cheat in MP, since the host isn't allowed to start with techs. I can honestly say that I have NEVER lied about whether I had techs on the opening or not.

	10-02-2004 20:21									#8
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Me neither.

But I have occasionally decided to play on even though my opponent had a few starting techs.

The most recent case was my game last week with a friend of mine in which I started on a river and with a whale in sight. The game was deity 1x1x and you can understand my delight with the river and the whale.

	10-02-2004 20:32									#9
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That decision is possible in a duel. It's easy for two players to agree. With more that two, there can be no wiggle room. The last thing you need is every start to hove to be negotiated. A simple restart rule makes more sense.

	10-02-2004 20:40									#10
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Agreed if you are playing an internet game.

If you are playing a network game there is more room for negotiation

	10-02-2004 22:00									#11
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I actually was offered it in one duel, but declined figuring if he was willing to let me start with three techs, he must be looking at one hell of a start. Which I found out was the case later.

	13-02-2004 10:11									#12
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Duke 'o York, Rah and Jrabbit:

Is this the MP thread you were thinking of?

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=79496

(See especially the posts towards the end by Cobra)

If this is the thread, as the thread title is "Hosting", Jrabbit was right to say it has a deceptive title.

Monk:

Yes, I was thinking about a head start on a medium or large map. I've now had a few good < 1000 AD landings, so I was thinking of seeing how early I could push it going back to some older techniques.

Ljcvetko:

Cheating? I just thought I might have some fun! Don't worry, I won't claim any world records in Apolyton forums. It'll be our secret!

	13-02-2004 11:55									#13
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quote: Originally posted by patrickwl Monk: Yes, I was thinking about a head start on a medium or large map. I've now had a few good < 1000 AD landings, so I was thinking of seeing how early I could push it going back to some older techniques.

Here is a link to an old thread with some very interesting muti-tech starts. These were fun; hope you enjoy.

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...229#post1283229

Monk