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CharlesBHoff
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el paso texas
May 2002
time: 05:33
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The white race is slowly diappearing. Brown skin people are consider white people along with polyessian people of the parfic ocean island. They share more charactist of face and hair with white people. Did you know Norway people have slant eyes like Chiness and Morgle people.
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CharlesBHoff
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el paso texas
May 2002
time: 05:33
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There is no real center body to rule who is a muslim or not muslim so it your opinate that Sikl arenot muslim while other muslim consider then muslim. In El Paso we have 3000 to 5000 muslim mostly muslim from oversea like India, Pakistan, other South Asia nation, from the Middle east and Iran and North Africa and local convert people. Many different sects and we must share one Islamist Center and soon Mosque must be share. It the muslim from Pakistan and India consider Sihl Muslim we also must consider them muslim also.
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Spiffor
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CPA - Evil Clone brigade
Nov 2001
time: 06:33
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Some new meat for the debate.
From BBC
quote:
French Muslims fear 'state within state'
Young French Muslims in the Lyon suburb of Les Minguettes - which 20 years ago saw angry protest marches as Muslims fought for full French nationality - are again angry at what they see as continued exclusion.
Already frustrated by poverty and what they perceive to be discrimination, their anger has been further increased by the French Parliament's passing of a law banning headscarves and other religious symbols from schools.
Some have even said that there is a risk French Muslims may choose to live in their own "state within a state".
"French society needs to accept us, because if they don't, it's going to lead to Muslims opening their own schools," said Lokman, a 22-year-old student and part-time teacher in Les Minguettes, told BBC World Service's Looking For God In Les Minguettes programme.
"Then they'll really keep to themselves. Already, there isn't much dialogue between the two groups. Then there won't be any at all.
"You'll have Muslims on one side, and everyone else on the other.
"It will be like having a state within a state."
Refusals
Les Minguettes is home to 21,000 people of North African origin.
It was the place where, in 1981, the first riots by a second generation of French immigrants took place.
By 1984, large numbers of these people were marching, in the belief they would eventually become equal to the French. But today, many of them have effectively abandoned France, arguing that Islam is their home.
When I go for a job interview and the boss sees my beard, he'll start wondering if I belong to an Islamic group
Lokman, student
"When young people work, they want to work in a firm with Muslims - so it's happening a little already, this state within a state," Lokman said.
"They know they'll be given time to recited their prayers; they know that during Ramadan they'll be able to go home a little earlier, because their boss is a Muslim, so he understands.
"If they had a choice, they would work with a Muslim."
Another of the frustrated young Muslims in Les Minguettes is Sami Hamaclouf, a 22-year-old studying Arabic literature at the University of Lyon.
Sami, who also works as a secretary for a halal meat wholesalers, said her headscarf had prevented her from working in many places.
"I never even went looking for a job, because I was afraid of the refusals I would get because of my headscarf," she said.
"You just don't hire a veiled girl. So I work for Muslims. This discrimination has pushed me to stay among my community, even if Muslims are much-criticised for that.
"I'm no different to anyone else here in France, except my faith is in Islam."
Lokman also said he had struggled to get a job because, although he dresses in Western clothes, he has a beard.
"When I go for a job interview and the boss sees my beard, he'll start wondering if I belong to an Islamic group," he said.
"People do not understand many of the Islamic practices. For us, the beard is part of the Islamic code of dressing, as found in the Koran. It's a way of covering the body, like the veil or headscarf for the woman."
'Quest for identity'
Sami said she had started wearing the headscarf at 14, and that it was a "spiritual and religious choice" inspired by her older brother.
I think what really bothers people is that along with being Muslim, I am also totally French
Sami Hamaclouf
She added she had learned that wearing a headscarf was a commandment of God.
However, in first year of wearing it, she was "straight away summoned to the headmaster's office, and told to take off my headband and show off my hair," she recalled.
"Then the headmaster started lecturing me about the Taleban and the oppression of women in Algeria.
"I didn't know about any of this. I'd been brought up in France. Algeria was the country of my holidays. It was then that I realised people did not understand me, or my quest for my own identity."
Changes
Many of the Muslims in Les Minguettes feel not enough has changed in 20 years.
Their parents who marched 20 years ago to demand their rights sang a deeply ironic version of the classic French song Sweet France. The same concerns still appear to be there - prime among them, Sami said, that politicians "still take us for idiots".
"They cleared themselves of responsibility by saying that they have Muslim friends.
"It looks nice, and it's supposed to mean they understand us," she said.
"But I ask them, 'do you listen to us, do you really understand us?' No!"
However, she did concede that the Les Minguettes marches had produced a positive effect.
Sami said that while first-generation Muslims had been afraid of being expelled, and so "kept their Muslim side hidden," young French Muslims now felt their fight was more "anchored."
"We can be French, aware of our citizenship, happy in this country - and still practise the religion and culture that belongs to our parents," she said.
"I think what really bothers people is that along with being Muslim, I am also totally French." |
Summary:
20 years after riots demanding full rights as citizens, disgruntled Muslims are more and more prone to form a close community separated from the rest of France. They increasingly work with other Muslims, and many doors are closed to them.
The headscarf law bears the further worsening between the general French society and its Muslim community, as it makes the headscarf (and the Muslim religious practices at large) as being non-French.
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CharlesBHoff
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el paso texas
May 2002
time: 05:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Akka
Well, that does qualify you for being retarded, then. |
How would like to be sue for slander. I have than non-verbal IQ of over 150, and they cannot measure my verbal IQ as I have than very hight abilitiy to read and understand what I than reading. Than retard person cannot use than computer without help from than adult. I can install window it my window go bad they cannot.
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CharlesBHoff
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el paso texas
May 2002
time: 05:33
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quote:
Originally posted by notyoueither
http://www.religioustolerance.org/sikhism.htm
quote:
Mogul emperors ruled a large area of South Asia from the 16th century until the end of the 18th century. They attempted to convert the Sikhs to Islam, but were unsuccessful. It has been said of one of the Sikh Gurus (considered by many Sikhs to have been the last guru) that "Had there been no Guru Gobind Singh, the entire country would have gotten circumcised" i.e. been converted to Islam. |
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Then in El Paso we are trying to convert the handful of Sikhs we have, it we donot allow then to take part in firday prayer we cannot convert then. India right now treat Sikhs alot worst than the Mogul emperors ever did. India is shut down Sikhs place of workship. In the Korea it clear state other religious place of workship must be respect. It than moslim burn down than christian church the Islamic state must help rebuilt than new one.
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CharlesBHoff
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el paso texas
May 2002
time: 05:33
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quote:
Originally posted by SpencerH
Hopefully this hasn't come up before. AFAIK the basis for banning headscarves is the separation of church and state. So does this mean that non-muslims can wear headscarves since presumably they wouldn't be wearing them for any religious purposes. |
It dependence on how the law is written. I believe it is written that all headscarves are ban even worn by non-muslim as than hight ranking KGB secrect police man once told me the law can be bumb and supity.
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CharlesBHoff
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el paso texas
May 2002
time: 05:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Spiffor
More precisely: they were cut from mainstream society. Because of rampant racism and discrimination (a commitee's report has just been out, it is very accusatory). The French society, along with religionmongers pushed them increasingly towards forming their own community, cut from the rest.
Had we accepted the idea that Muslims can be real Frenchies too (a pill that seems hard to swallow for many people, at least those with whome I discuss on the streets), things would have been entirely different: these people wouldn't have met closed doors wherever they go except at their kin's. |
This than point well taken. The reason the black vote for George Wallace for govnor was when he was than country court judge he set free falsely accue black people even it was than racist. He was than open racist instead of a hidden racist like some Northern are.
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18-02-2004 09:29
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