12-02-2004 03:48									#61
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Yes, but the "Mill limit" IS libertarian, quite.

	12-02-2004 03:50									#62
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True. You may, in fact, defend the 'Mill limit' as is, but you may not re-use most of Mill's arguments, because, as an utilitarian, what he said was profoundly based on the historical context.

	12-02-2004 03:52									#63
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quote: Originally posted by Oncle Boris ... and his philosophy is from the 19th century.

In a forum full of Communists, you say that like it matters.

	12-02-2004 03:53									#64
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quote: Originally posted by Oncle Boris True. You may, in fact, defend the 'Mill limit' as is, but you may not re-use most of Mill's arguments, because, as an utilitarian, what he said was profoundly based on the historical context.

So? I was using the term "Mill limit" to refer to - get this - the "Mill limit", which happens to ALSO be a good example of the libertarian concept of freedom.

	12-02-2004 03:55									#65
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT In a forum full of Communists, you say that like it matters.

Good point.

edit: er good, not god

	12-02-2004 03:56									#66
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nm

	12-02-2004 05:29									#67
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quote: Originally posted by skywalker So? I was using the term "Mill limit" to refer to - get this - the "Mill limit", which happens to ALSO be a good example of the libertarian concept of freedom.

They are different things. Mill's conception of liberty is such that it can be limited by broader social concerns. Libertarian conceptions of liberty (Nozick, Hospers, et al.) forbid this.

Remember Mill is a utilitarian.

	12-02-2004 06:48									#68
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT In a forum full of Communists, you say that like it matters.

That's why I don't pay much attention to economic based threads in here. They have degenerated to a lot worse since June 2003 before my banning.

	12-02-2004 06:53									#69
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quote: Originally posted by Fez That's why I don't pay much attention to economic based threads in here. They have degenerated to a lot worse since June 2003 before my banning.

@ Fez

You are far and away the worst economic illiterate on this forum (and that's saying something).

	12-02-2004 06:55									#70
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon You are far and away the worst economic illiterate on this forum (and that's saying something).

Considering it is my minor in university I am no illiterate. I am no Alan Greenspan but I am no illiterate.

You are a moron. Communists naturally do not know anything about the economy.

	12-02-2004 06:56									#71
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Is Fez the conservative Sava, or is Sava the liberal Fez?

	12-02-2004 06:59									#72
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What a connundrum, John .

	12-02-2004 06:59									#73
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT Is Fez the conservative Sava, or is Sava the liberal Fez?

Sava's hot.

	12-02-2004 07:00									#74
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui What a connundrum, John .

My mind is spinning just trying to think about it. Man, sometimes I wish I could drink!

	12-02-2004 07:02									#75
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It's worse than the chicken/egg debate (which over the long process of time, the chicken team seems to be slightly ahead... but the egg's have their counter-offensive planned).

	12-02-2004 07:04									#76
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quote: Originally posted by Fez Considering it is my minor in university I am no illiterate. I am no Alan Greenspan but I am no illiterate.

I wonder what they are teaching at McUniversity these days.

Perhaps your teachers will knock some sense into you.

quote: You are a moron. Communists naturally do not know anything about the economy.

That's a gross overgeneralization, but all communists do know something about Marx, who was a seminal figure in the history of economics, along with Ricardo, Malthus, Smith, Keynes, etc.

	12-02-2004 07:07									#77
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon I wonder what they are teaching at McUniversity these days. Perhaps your teachers will knock some sense into you.

Most of my professors happen to be on the center when it comes to politics.

quote: That's a gross overgeneralization, but all communists do know something about Marx, who was a seminal figure in the history of economics, along with Ricardo, Malthus, Smith, Keynes, etc.

A gross overgeneralization? It is how it is man. If you want a classic case of how you commies run things, look at Daniel Ortega and Nicaragua. You can keep the hyperstagflation.

	12-02-2004 07:08									#78
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I hope these corporations realize what they're doing when they let Joe-zyuang build their product for half the wages.

Corporations become very rich, the executives of those corporations become very rich. Remaining employees see no difference, and those who lost their jobs will either apply for welfare or get a low-pay dead-end job that recieves very little from the economy and contributes very little to the economy.

Meanwhile, long-term, Joe-zyuang might be slightly richer, but the corporation is much richer--both at the expense of the American middle class.

	12-02-2004 07:10									#79
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Corporations know much more than you give them credit for. They realize that the American middle class is where they make their money. They won't kill it.

Besides the American middle class ain't going anywhere.

	12-02-2004 07:23									#80
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quote: Originally posted by Fez A gross overgeneralization? It is how it is man. If you want a classic case of how you commies run things, look at Daniel Ortega and Nicaragua. You can keep the hyperstagflation.

Not that I'm a defender of Ortega, but the fact that a superpower conducted an undeclared terror war against that country might have a little bit to do with its problems.

	12-02-2004 07:25									#81
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon Not that I'm a defender of Ortega, but the fact that a superpower conducted an undeclared terror war against that country might have a little bit to do with its problems.

And I am not defending the contras fighters. I am just saying Ortega is a perfect example of who is near your beliefs. You can keep the hyperstagflation!

	12-02-2004 07:31									#82
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So the war had nothing to do with Nicaragua's problems. Interesting...

	12-02-2004 07:36									#83
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quote: Abortion isn't an issue except for committed Dems and Reps.

Yeah, and how polarised is the US anyway? I don't see many undecideds.

quote: Gay marriage isn't as key an issue as the Reps want to hope. It will galvanize the Christian right, but they were already galvanized.

No. There are quite a few people who would rather prefer the middle road of civil unions, anything but marriage. They don't care so much about the benefits, but about making some sort of distinction. These folks are the ones going to have to make a choice between the status quo, that they are comfortable with, or change, which is going to make them uncomfortable.

	12-02-2004 07:39									#84
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quote: Originally posted by Fez Considering it is my minor in university I am no illiterate. I am no Alan Greenspan but I am no illiterate.

Considering you're a teenage freshman that hasn't even declared a major or a minor, that statement means something between jack and sh**.

	12-02-2004 07:57									#85
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quote: Originally posted by Kontiki Considering you're a teenage freshman that hasn't even declared a major or a minor, that statement means something between jack and sh**.

I already declared both my major and minor. Poli Sci is my major. Economics is my minor. I had that decided one year before even entering CSUN. I also don't intend to change that as I am satisifed with it. Some students change even their declared majors. I don't know what you do in Canada but you have no clue. I declared my major when applying.

	12-02-2004 08:03									#86
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Come on Fez. What is the chief claim of neo-Keynesians regarding private markets and efficiency?

You'll like efficiency, the guy who basically invented the modern concept was a fascist.

	12-02-2004 08:05									#87
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon Come on Fez. What is the chief claim of neo-Keynesians regarding private markets and efficiency? You'll like efficiency, the guy who basically invented the modern concept was a fascist.

I am not for government interference with the economy therefore that does not make me a Keynesism supporter. At any rate, continue believeing in your false beliefs of destruction and misery.

	12-02-2004 08:06									#88
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Oh wonderful, exactly what we need. More political science graduates.

	12-02-2004 08:07									#89
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quote: Originally posted by Fez I am not for government interference with the economy therefore that does not make me a Keynesism supporter. At any rate, continue believeing in your false beliefs of destruction and misery.

Go Fez!

	12-02-2004 08:12									#90
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Oh wonderful, exactly what we need. More political science graduates.

Well, at least he's not majoring in Philosophy.