17-02-2004 08:42									#31
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all i have to say is this, if player A starts kicking @ss and taking the lead, we can't bow down to this sort of tyranny. There must be an agreeable way to try and carve up his empire.

same holds true if after the demise of A....that C becomes too powerfull, otherwise, with all the rules we have, the power will have shifted too far in one direction to change the outcome of the game.

i want diplomacy without ruining the game and turning it into a caravan sleeze

	17-02-2004 09:54									#32
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quote: 2)Interaction between players a) no cooperation between players - need to define b) no use of diplomacy screen everything else OK - eliminates all trading and gifting and ceding but allows players to make unenforcible agreements c) no diplomacy screen and no foriegn caravans (this stops the game from turning into multiple trade alliances) d) everything goes e) RAH's Rules f) something else (please explain)

War:

Is that a vote for C?

	17-02-2004 10:09									#33
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should the vote for interaction result be C, are we allowed to TRY to land caravans in foreign cities? A reward for the risk we take? Or does it mean we can't even attempt it?

And after consultation with DD I am going to have a game started and waiting. If you have a specific civ you would like then post here, otherwise you get to choose from the random selections I make. First in first served with reserving civs in case of any clashes. I take white.

	17-02-2004 10:12									#34
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thats a good idea

that way we can have a no tech start waiting and not have to have multiple restarts

	17-02-2004 12:50									#35
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It has just been brought to my attention that certain players about to play this game have recently been accused of unfair {or at least unsporting} play. The problem seems to be more related to people having differing ideas of the rules.

Please everyone READ the rah rules thread to get clear on what the rules are. Anything not specifically mentioned here will default to Rah rules. If there are any questions ASK them now, so there is no ambiguity. If anyone has a problem with any rule POST it, we can vote and move on.

The recent issue largely seems to be concerned with diplo guiding. Rah rules do allow it, but it is true that it can be abused.

So lets add that to the rules vote...

3. Diplo Guiding
a) - Allowed
b) - Not Allowed
c) - Allowed, but only one guided unit per guiding unit per turn.

I vote for C.

I don't mean to get too pedantic about all this, but I'm sick of playing with kids and the last thing I want is for a good game to fall to **** because of a misunderstanding or an exploitation.

	17-02-2004 16:56									#36
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quote: [SIZE=1] Originally posted by Deity Dude Undecided Items: (please vote by gmt 05:00 thurs) 1)Wonders a) all wonders are OK b) all wonders but GL and GW c) 1 wonder per person d) no wonders e) something else (please explain) 2)Interaction between players a) no cooperation between players - need to define b) no use of diplomacy screen everything else OK - eliminates all trading and gifting and ceding but allows players to make unenforcible agreements c) no diplomacy screen and no foriegn caravans (this stops the game from turning into multiple trade alliances) d) everything goes e) RAH's Rules f) something else (please explain)

1) c
I love One Wonder games. Extremely interesting to see what each player picks!

2) c
I guess to speed things up.

	17-02-2004 20:19									#37
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I vote:

1 wonder (c)

(I am assuming that anyone can build apollo and/or manhatten in addition to the 1 wonder they select)


No Diplomacy Screen no Foriegn Caravans (c)

(I am assuming this means that players can cooperate in any way they want other then thru these 2 methods. i.e. Players can agree to attack others, let diplos thru for tech stealing etc at thier own risk)


Allow Diplo Guiding (a)


If we are choosing colors ahead of time I will take the American (Light Blue)

Sounds like we have 3 confirmed, now we need to get markus, war and whoever else in here to confirm.

	18-02-2004 00:31									#38
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ik i am not voting i am voicing....so put me underwhatever category u want...

If you can land caravans, then i agree it should be ok, but its the other players JOB to make sure you dont just walk them up. He must make an atttempt to prevent you.

wonders, really dont' care, 1 , 2 10, what difference does it make, i can predict the top 5 wonders for a civ game anyways.

diploguiding....again, if the person wants to use the resources and your defences suck, odds are he doens't need the diplo

	18-02-2004 00:38									#39
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quote: Originally posted by War4ever ik i am not voting i am voicing

The real question is - are you playing?

	18-02-2004 00:51									#40
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I would like it to be on emperor lvl to reduce the factor of happy wonders.

I am for all wonders.

I am for anything goes on diplomacy

Count me in as a player.


I pick Vikings as tribe. My tribe is going to be named:

Orcs
Orcish

Leader: Garthank Hellblade
Warchief --- Despot
Warlord ---- King
Utog ---- Comrade
High Shaman --- High Priest
Elder ---- Consul
Savgrat ---- President

	18-02-2004 06:32									#41
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I am for guiding with paratroopers, 1 unit per paratrooper.

I am for guiding with partisans, 1 unit per partisan.

I am for not bribing partisans that arrive out of a conquered city.

I am not for using diplomats to guide units through.

I am for that bombers, fighters can guide 1 unit each.

I am against City bribing.

I am for Unit bribing in general (see note above concerning partisans)

	18-02-2004 09:34									#42
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quote: Originally posted by warlon I am for guiding with paratroopers, 1 unit per paratrooper. I am for guiding with partisans, 1 unit per partisan. I am for not bribing partisans that arrive out of a conquered city. I am not for using diplomats to guide units through. I am for that bombers, fighters can guide 1 unit each. I am against City bribing. I am for Unit bribing in general (see note above concerning partisans)

no taking multiple cities, no trading within your own empire, not allowed to build troops...etc..

sigh, lets not restrict the whole game? otherwise lets play a diplo

	18-02-2004 11:23									#43
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Unit bribing okay, city bribing not is standard as per rah rules.

Your guiding opinion obviously most closely matches C {in voting terms}

I think you'll just have to live without exceptions for diplos and partisans, once we start down that road any number of possible alternatives for other rules will have legitimacy to crop up, and we'll still be sorting them out three weeks from now.

	18-02-2004 22:26									#44
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Well seeing as the game is tomorrow we need to finalize settings today. After reading everyone's comments/votes I think the following represents a consensus. If I am wrong please post ASAP.

RAH's Rules except

1x1x deity
60x80 map small archs wet cool 3 bil
1 wonder (plus apollo and manhatten)
no diplo screen or foriegn trade
no hut finder

Consistant with RAH's rules:
diploguiding is ok
oracle extended to industrialization
unit bribe ok - no city bribe (except barb cities that were yours)

Other issues:
Post what civ you want to be or u will be forced to take what is available

Game Time 0100 GMT Friday

Cyber-Spyder to host and have a tech-free start waiting at that time

Try and be on ICQ 10 mins early

Confirmed players:
Cyber-Spyder - Romans
Warlon - Viking
Deity - no civ selected yet
War4ever - no civ selected yet
Deity Dude - Americans

Possible Player:
Markus (posted but has not confirmed)

	18-02-2004 22:58									#45
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The Villian wears Purple of course....a purple dress!

i think any barb cities should be open to bribery from anyone?

	19-02-2004 00:24									#46
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i confirm...


Remember the last time we played one wonder, no tech trading? I had a 35 tech lead over everyone and was constructing spaceships before diety reached industrialization.

	19-02-2004 01:41									#47
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quote: Originally posted by War4ever i think any barb cities should be open to bribery from anyone?

Is that a RAH rule?

	19-02-2004 01:41									#48
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i wasnt in that game but i bet some of it had to do with foriegn landed caravans

	19-02-2004 02:42									#49
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Rah rules say you can only bribe back cities taken from you by barbs or one that an AI bribed from you. Lets stick with that.

And trust me, you won't get that far ahead scientifically. Not even close.

Looks like we've got a good game about to happen. Only other issue is with player drops or players not showing up.

If a player drops we'll hold and wait for them to come back. If someone does manage to drop at the exactly wrong time and they miss a turn they can request a reload, but only do that if the AI actually makes a mess of something.

If you don't show up and don't have a sub waiting, we'll try to find one or let the AI run your civ for a turn. But we want committment here people, so don't let that happen.

	19-02-2004 03:41									#50
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cyber spyder i have played more "rah" rules game, aside from Rah and maybe Ming.

the idea of not being able to bribe a barb city of my neighbors has always been an issue with me.

i personally would like to vote on the idea of being able to bribe ANY BARB city on the map.

other than that......

markus i remember hearing about that game and you showing me the map......pure brilliance

	19-02-2004 05:06									#51
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quote: Originally posted by War4ever no taking multiple cities, no trading within your own empire, not allowed to build troops...etc.. sigh, lets not restrict the whole game? otherwise lets play a diplo

LMAO!

LOL

It is easy to get too hung up but recent experience has shown that rules discussion followed by clear posting of rules agreements is crucial to the games survival!

	19-02-2004 05:19									#52
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quote: Originally posted by markusf i confirm... Remember the last time we played one wonder, no tech trading? I had a 35 tech lead over everyone and was constructing spaceships before diety reached industrialization.

LOL! A slight exageration... I'll post the ave later.

But Markus point is entirely correct. You cannot have GL with no tech trading. I suggested ONE Wonder but earlier I also suggested NO GL and NO GW for a ONE Wonder game. I don't particularly care about GW but I included that because so many others have insisted it be banned (as per Rah Rules I think?)

BUT, Tech trading in no alliance games, in my opinion, produces alliance type scenarios particularly in conjunction with secret icq chats where players can conspire!

And on thart point...

I vote for "BRING BACK LISTENING POSTS!"

All dialog between players must be in KC. No icq chats.

Another thing we've never done is made KC available ONLY when you meet a civ. I think this would be more interesting. Let's try it? So all inter civ role discussion is only in KC. Then you can try and setup listening posts that mean something

icq must be restricted to game setup and restart comms only.

	19-02-2004 07:33									#53
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Just been talking to DD. I have to pick my Dad who is coming out of hospital and no other family member can pick him up.
I can play as late as everyone wants but would really like to be waited for before starting.

DD suggested a 9pm his time start (1pm Friday Aussie EDT) Does this suit everyone? I can play as long as you like. I'd like Carts colour (called deity of THE DEITIANS if you are doing that mod stufff)

	19-02-2004 07:36									#54
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I'd prefer a game with a more diplo leaning if you want to allow more coop between the civs.

	19-02-2004 07:37									#55
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I'd prefer a game with a more diplo leaning if you want to allow more cooperation between the civs.

	19-02-2004 07:39									#56
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quote: Originally posted by deity LOL! A slight exageration... I'll post the ave later. But Markus point is entirely correct. You cannot have GL with no tech trading. I suggested ONE Wonder but earlier I also suggested NO GL and NO GW for a ONE Wonder game. I don't particularly care about GW but I included that because so many others have insisted it be banned (as per Rah Rules I think?) BUT, Tech trading in no alliance games, in my opinion, produces alliance type scenarios particularly in conjunction with secret icq chats where players can conspire! And on thart point... I vote for "BRING BACK LISTENING POSTS!" All dialog between players must be in KC. No icq chats. Another thing we've never done is made KC available ONLY when you meet a civ. I think this would be more interesting. Let's try it? So all inter civ role discussion is only in KC. Then you can try and setup listening posts that mean something icq must be restricted to game setup and restart comms only.

while i agree to this, if people have an unofficial alliance who first meet, they have an unfair advantage i have seem manipulated far too ofter..

no icq, would be great if we could all follow it..... but you need it to start games and in case of drops etc...

i think posting KC after the session, could be fun for others to read and see how this game degenerates into a bruhaha

	19-02-2004 07:41									#57
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WTF is a listening post I hear you say

	19-02-2004 07:43									#58
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quote: Originally posted by deity Just been talking to DD. I have to pick my Dad who is coming out of hospital and no other family member can pick him up. I can play as late as everyone wants but would really like to be waited for before starting. DD suggested a 9pm his time start (1pm Friday Aussie EDT) Does this suit everyone? I can play as long as you like. I'd like Carts colour (called deity of THE DEITIANS if you are doing that mod stufff)

Already the first excuse and the game hasnt' even started.

on a serious note, that start time is fine with me, besides, in the first session if people want to arrive early so we have no "technical issues" that might be a good idea as well, everyone can catch up and/or introduce themselves


Dont' make it a habit Deity

	19-02-2004 08:01									#59
	Remove this text

if no one disagrees - lets add to the rules that all talk between players must be done thru king chat - ICQ is only to be used to setup games and if there technical difficulties

Whats really amazing to me is that ive played 100's of these games if not 1000's and never knew about the listening post function

	19-02-2004 08:04									#60
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and i guess we should go no GL