19-02-2004 08:06									#61
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in a 6 or 7 man game GL is a pretty tough advantage to get over

	19-02-2004 08:14									#62
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by War4ever Already the first excuse and the game hasnt' even started. on a serious note, that start time is fine with me, besides, in the first session if people want to arrive early so we have no "technical issues" that might be a good idea as well, everyone can catch up and/or introduce themselves Dont' make it a habit Deity

Yeah, no worries War4 I very rarely miss sessions - only had two problems in a year.

	19-02-2004 08:26									#63
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quote: Originally posted by Deity Dude in a 6 or 7 man game GL is a pretty tough advantage to get over

not that i ever build GL, but i think restricting wonders is pretty silly aside from the Manhattan Project, due to its ability to change the game in a couple of turns.

if you build the Wall or GL thats your 300 shield investment.

otherwise i forsee someone getting pinned and squashed early.....

up to you guys, but i suggest keeping all the wonders in the game, Manhattan aside

	19-02-2004 08:29									#64
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GL without tech trading will always lead to the point Markus made. A good player with GL can just invest in caras and infrastructure and rock.

So if all Wonders are in (and I don't mind MH being included) we must have tech trading and some degree of cooperation between civs so that leading players can be brought down. I agree with what you said earlier War.

	19-02-2004 08:35									#65
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quote: Originally posted by Deity Dude i wasnt in that game but i bet some of it had to do with foriegn landed caravans

You WERE in this game DD

You started out as Romans...

	19-02-2004 08:38									#66
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quote: Originally posted by War4ever cyber spyder i have played more "rah" rules game, aside from Rah and maybe Ming. the idea of not being able to bribe a barb city of my neighbors has always been an issue with me. i personally would like to vote on the idea of being able to bribe ANY BARB city on the map. other than that......

I vote for minimal rules and use Rah Rules as much as possible! Otherwise I'll get too confused... I'm too old for this

	19-02-2004 08:51									#67
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quote: Originally posted by Deity Dude Well seeing as the game is tomorrow we need to finalize settings today. After reading everyone's comments/votes I think the following represents a consensus. If I am wrong please post ASAP. RAH's Rules except 1x1x deity 60x80 map small archs wet cool 3 bil 1 wonder (plus apollo and manhatten)

All Wonders available then
+ tech trading

quote: no diplo screen or foriegn trade

let's make the game a bit more diplo. The more I think about it the more I remember how strict no alliance games can have runaway leaders purely based on luck.

quote: no hut finder

NO HUTS! And I hate that bloody hutfinder. It destroys the mystique completely! I never use it.

quote: Consistant with RAH's rules: diploguiding is ok oracle extended to industrialization unit bribe ok - no city bribe (except barb cities that were yours)

Agreed on Rah Rules as much as possible. Tried and tested.

Barb level? Suggest Villages but i don't really mind.

Cyber, make sure you have your rules.txt in the normal civ directory changed for Oracle extension, unless this is a modpak?

	19-02-2004 08:55									#68
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Oh, and one other thing. DD and I were just chatting again... If a player is getting wiped out they might decide to quit. Since winning by military conquest is completely allowed we should enable "cCv crumbles upon retirement". But make sure the host saves atr the correct point when this happens. AND, this is only feasible with NO foreign trade routes of course.

	19-02-2004 09:04									#69
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Emperor or DEITIAN level ?

	19-02-2004 11:18									#70
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Feel free to suggest any last minute changes you want guys, it wouldn't be a game without three pages of posts to read through before understanding the rules.... sheesh.

It makes it harder because there seems to have been a few modifications suggested based on inexact understanding of the rules proposed.

First the easy, unambiguous things...

all game related chat to flow through King Chat.
{Last time I used a listening post it later randomly got discovered and my whole empire fell into anarchy}

no bribing opponents barbarian cities. That rule is discussed and justified in the Rah Rules thread.

Deity level

Can't chat from start - good idea

Civ crumbles on retirement - also a killer idea

Only one wonder can be built. Manhattan project and Appolo's aren't counted, so anyone can build one or both without it beong 'their' wonder

Now for the vote -
a. GL not allowed, neither is tech trading
b. GL IS allowed, and so is tech trading.

New start time - 0300 GMT 20.02.04

How can I make it have no huts?

	19-02-2004 11:57									#71
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quote: Originally posted by Cyber-Spyder Feel free to suggest any last minute changes you want guys, it wouldn't be a game without three pages of posts to read through before understanding the rules.... sheesh. It makes it harder because there seems to have been a few modifications suggested based on inexact understanding of the rules proposed. First the easy, unambiguous things... all game related chat to flow through King Chat. {Last time I used a listening post it later randomly got discovered and my whole empire fell into anarchy} no bribing opponents barbarian cities. That rule is discussed and justified in the Rah Rules thread. Deity level Can't chat from start - good idea Civ crumbles on retirement - also a killer idea Only one wonder can be built. Manhattan project and Appolo's aren't counted, so anyone can build one or both without it beong 'their' wonder Now for the vote - a. GL not allowed, neither is tech trading b. GL IS allowed, and so is tech trading. New start time - 0300 GMT 20.02.04 How can I make it have no huts?

Rah rules are not the pure basis of this game, i still vote that anyone can bribe any barb city, why should they not be allowed too?

if we restrict everything, were not going to have much of a game. As a player who has built and used manhattans, let me just say once someone gets it, its over so decide now if you want this bad boy in the game.

Huts should be in the game, there needs to be some chance/luck

again with GW/GL if someone wants to build it WHY NOT

tech trading , again why not, are you going to eliminate tech stealing too?

if not, then one should make an effort to block tech stealing ...can that be counted on? same pandoras box as caravan trading.

do you realize if you have all hills in your land trading within your empire will suck huge. Those with trade specials or rivers will have a bigger advantage, at least if you can sneak a caravan in , you might have a shot at catching up.

i dont' want some one to be a trade b!tch either, but if we limit everything, then in theory, we should play a premade mad with equal land starts and may the best man rush his settler into no mans land

I am hesitant to play this game , for fear that we aren't all on the same page

After talking with DD i felt better, now that i read these posts, i feeel like i did before

	19-02-2004 12:49									#72
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quote: Originally posted by War4ever Rah rules are not the pure basis of this game, i still vote that anyone can bribe any barb city, why should they not be allowed too?

Goodness me. Rah's Rules is a good rule set and all we are doing here is clarifying a few points and adding a few interesting elements. What's the big deal?

quote: if we restrict everything, we're not going to have much of a game. As a player who has built and used manhattans, let me just say once someone gets it, its over so decide now if you want this bad boy in the game.

What is this 'everything' we are restricting? If you mean foreign trade I don't mind leavinbg it in but if your trading partner retires and his civ crumbles you lose the trade routes. Yeah, that might make it interesting actually! Allow foriegn trade and we all take the risk

quote: Huts should be in the game, there needs to be some chance/luck

I don't mind huts if all want it.

quote: again with GW/GL if someone wants to build it WHY NOT tech trading , again why not, are you going to eliminate tech stealing too?

That's the point. We need to allow both; so all your following points are satisfied.

quote: if not, then one should make an effort to block tech stealing ...can that be counted on? same pandoras box as caravan trading. do you realize if you have all hills in your land trading within your empire will suck huge. Those with trade specials or rivers will have a bigger advantage, at least if you can sneak a caravan in , you might have a shot at catching up. i dont' want some one to be a trade b!tch either, but if we limit everything, then in theory, we should play a premade mad with equal land starts and may the best man rush his settler into no mans land I am hesitant to play this game , for fear that we aren't all on the same page

How you arrive at this conclusion is beyond me. Please play in this one. It's a good group and with this pre-game discussion we should eliminate most problems.

	19-02-2004 13:20									#73
	Put an end to popups!

Wow....

Nothnig like waiting until the last minute to make a suggestion or two.

After reading everyones posts and talking to all of you on ICQ, these are the rules I think will best reflect a consensus and a good ongoing game environment. If we can't agree on these real soon we won't be able to start until next week. So I propose that these be the rules, unless someone thinks I am so far off base that it is worth waiting another week.

Starting Time: 0200 GMT (every other week to be 0100 GMT)

Host: Cyber-Spyder (Host will have a tech free start ready at 0200 GMT)

*****SPECIAL THANKS TO CYBER-SPYDER FOR ORIGINATING THIS GAME*****


Settings are RAH's rules except:


1x1x deity

small wet cool arch 3bil 60x80 map

enable "Empire crumbles to dust" option for early quitters. (we know there won't be any though)

no diplo screen contact - no foriegn trade routes

ALL conversation between players thru king chat - set king chat to "players can only chat upon meeting each other" ICQ is only to only be used for pregame setup and technical difficulties. Agreements thru King Chat are allowed, but since they are unenforcible, are made at the players own risk.

1 wonder per person - No Great Library/No Manahatten Project. Building Apollo doesnt count as Building a Wonder

Any player can call for a restart once on or before 3700bc

no hut finder program or other add-on programs allowed (huts are still in the game)


Consistant with RAH's Rules but mentioned for clarification:

diplo guiding is ok

no city bribe (except for a barb city that was formerly yours)/unit bribe is OK

Oracle extended uuntil industrtialization


Lets all show up 10-15 minutes before 0200 GMT, except Deity.


This looks like it has the potential to be a great game with a great group of players. After the first session I'll start a thread about the game. That way we can discuss issues and everyone can tell everyone else why they think they are winning.

Last edited by Deity Dude on 19-02-2004 at 13:25

	19-02-2004 16:21									#74
	Remove this text

I hereby agree to these rules and settings... signed in blood... deity

	19-02-2004 16:34									#75
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Thank you for that. It makes everything simple and easy. Oh no, wait... Deity, you said start at 1 PM our time, which is 0300 GMT, not 0200. You signed in blood, so that makes it 0200... but if you signed in your fathers blood, not your own, thats wrong and I won't accept it, in which case start is 0300. Post ASAP to clarify.

Everything else looks very good and acceptable, anyone who has an issue please speak to myself or DD before posting further confusion. If you are still not happy after speaking to either of us then post a clear, concise and optioned vote on the rule you have an issue with.

Remember in this game EVERY civ starts as a dictatorship. So if you want to argue, then protest. Go on, I dare ya....

	19-02-2004 22:22									#76
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cyber:

You and Deity are 1 hour different in time zones. (At least according to apolyton)

STARTING TIME IS 0200 GMT FRIDAY

that translates to 6pm PST, 9pm EST, 12 noon for cyber, 1pm for deity and 3 am for warlon. (At least according to apolyton)

	19-02-2004 22:28									#77
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{slaps head} okay, all set then. Sometimes I forget farmers till run my state.

Everyone ICQ me 10 mins or so before start.

	19-02-2004 22:28									#78
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{slaps head} okay, all set then. Sometimes I forget farmers still run my state.

Everyone ICQ me 10 mins or so before start.

	19-02-2004 23:45									#79
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quote: Originally posted by deity I hereby agree to these rules and settings... signed in blood... deity

yes but your quote at the bottom of your posts is odd

i am kewl with these settings, cya all tonite

	20-02-2004 03:08									#80
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glad to see u in War

	20-02-2004 03:11									#81
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I should be here by 1pm Aust EDT = 2am GMT

If I'm not I'm only minutes away unless there's an admin **** up. I'll have a borrowed mobile if you are getting agitated! +61 0412 491 718 Cyber is nearest so he might ring to see how far away I am. But as I said I should be here by the scheduled start time.

	20-02-2004 03:46									#82
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bad news, taking my gf to the hospital again, i can't make the start time and now my future is up in the air.


SIGH, I hate Chrones Disease

	20-02-2004 07:37									#83
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okay, the game is successfully underway. Almost on time too . As we can't use king chat post any game logistics here.

	20-02-2004 12:05									#84
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Check the new thread, use it more like a story/debate thread and check this one for logistics.

Next friday, 0100 GMT. See you all there!