11-02-2004 22:45									#1
	Honoring a great president. Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Tomorrow is the celebration of Abraham Lincoln's birthday.



In remembrance to one of the greatest presidents in the history of our country, who did an excellent job during his first term, that in the middle of the Civil War, the people reelected him for a second term.

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	11-02-2004 22:46									#2
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HUMF.

	11-02-2004 22:48									#3
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he won two elections.

it was mostly a few angry people who rejected him for the second.

	11-02-2004 22:48									#4
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you edited your post.

	11-02-2004 22:53									#5
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I don't know, he doesn't look gay in that picture.













Seriously, I respect Abraham Lincoln very much.

	11-02-2004 22:54									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel I don't know, he doesn't look gay in that picture. Seriously, I respect Abraham Lincoln very much.

Lincoln wasn't gay!

	11-02-2004 22:55									#7
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Lincoln.

	11-02-2004 22:55									#8
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Ditto, a great president. A great man. An inspiration for all that is good in the world.

	11-02-2004 22:57									#9
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And yes, Lincoln was a great man, and a great President.

	11-02-2004 22:58									#10
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Hmm, the Americans are trying to contact me-they must want spices...

	11-02-2004 23:02									#12
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Lincoln was horrible. As I recall, he was the ORIGINAL inventor of Court Packing. Let's see, he suspended habeas corpus, he only freed the slaves in certain areas to further a political goal - slaves in an area where he had no authority, by the way. Lincoln started America's bloodiest war, and under Lincoln's Administration, the US instituted the horrors of conscription for the first time. Lincoln interfered with elections and legislative votes, most notably in Maryland and Delaware, in order to achieve the result that he wanted.

Lincoln's only real goal was to preserve the Union - which meant keeping all the States together, whether or not they wanted to.

**** Lincoln.

	11-02-2004 23:03									#13
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quote: Originally posted by The diplomat Lincoln wasn't gay!

Thx for the clarification.

	11-02-2004 23:07									#14
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What no mention of income tax Floyd?

	11-02-2004 23:38									#15
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Top 5 US preisdents, in order if importance for me:

1. Lincoln
2. Washington
3. Jefferson
4. FDR
5. Jackson (close with TR)

	11-02-2004 23:50									#16
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dude looks old.

	11-02-2004 23:52									#17
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The war aged him greatly.

	12-02-2004 00:05									#18
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Yeah, David -- Lincoln was such a horrible tyrant, that the majority in the Northern states reelected him!!

	12-02-2004 00:06									#19
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why does no one ever talk abaout Zackary Taylor (sp)

	12-02-2004 00:07									#20
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Cause it's not his birthday tomorrow?

	12-02-2004 00:08									#21
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david floyd is hilarious

	12-02-2004 00:09									#23
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Andy -- you find Taylor to be one of your favorite historical presidents??

	12-02-2004 00:10									#24
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Oh, and David -- if you thought the federal government was going to just lie down and let Maryland walk all over it in the early days of the Civil War -- and that the federal government would not take measures to defend itself, you really have your perspective out of whack.

	12-02-2004 00:10									#25
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well, I am not american, and I only rerad a little bit about him in a civil war book i read awhile ago. But he struck me as one of those rare pragmatists who usually avoid catastrphies.

	12-02-2004 00:20									#26
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a quote from Lincoln:

"My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union. I shall do less whenever I shall believe what I am doing hurts the cause, and I shall do more whenever I shall believe doing more will help the cause." The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume V, "Letter to Horace Greeley" (August 22, 1862)

	12-02-2004 00:24									#27
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His second inaugural speech was one of his most moving speeches -- along with the earlier Gettysburg speech. Here is a quote from the second inaugural:

"With malice toward none, with charity for all, with firmness in the right as God gives us to see the right, let us strive on to finish the work we are in; to bind up the nation's wounds; to care for him who shall have borne the battle, and for his widow and his orphan - to do all which may achieve and cherish a just and lasting peace, among ourselves, and with all nations." Lincoln's Second Inaugural Address, March 4, 1865.

	12-02-2004 00:33									#28
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another memorable quote:

"A house divided against itself cannot stand. I believe this government cannot endure permanently half-slave and half-free. I do not expect the Union to be dissolved - I do not expect the house to fall - but I do expect it will cease to be divided. It will become all one thing or all the other." Lincoln's 'House-Divided' Speech in Springfield, Illinois, June 16, 1858.

	12-02-2004 00:38									#29
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Here is a quote in the late 1850s, when he was more racist than he was during the latter half of the Civil War:


"I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in anyway the social and political equality of the white and black races - that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race. I say upon this occasion I do not perceive that because the white man is to have the superior position the negro should be denied everything." The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume III, "Fourth Debate with Stephen A. Douglas at Charleston, Illinois" (September 18, 1858),


But there is somewhat of an inconsistency, with the last sentence of this quote, implying that blacks, to some extent, should be guaranteed very basic rights.

	12-02-2004 00:41									#30
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another quote, from a letter Lincoln wrote, that showed the issue that divided the nation:

"You think slavery is right and should be extended; while we think slavery is wrong and ought to be restricted. That I suppose is the rub. It certainly is the only substantial difference between us." The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume IV, "Letter to Alexander H. Stephens" (December 22, 1860),