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Lawrence of Arabia is offline Lawrence of Arabia
King
of the Gulag Archipelago
Apr 2001
time: 06:33
  Old Post 24-02-2004 01:32
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#181 Report this post to a moderator
Tired of ads?

im talking about all drugs - weed, hash, coke, heroine, shrooms, x etc.

and i hope you get arrested for being gay and get thrown out of a helicopter.

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
King
Los Angeles
Apr 2000
time: 02:33
  Old Post 24-02-2004 01:34 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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#182 Report this post to a moderator
Full PM-box? Change here!

All drugs? What are you stupid or something? Weed... well.. I don't give a damn about it any more. But cocaine? Heroin? LSD? What the hell are you on? HELL NO. And your second sentence isn't worth a response.... what the **** is wrong with you? Being gay is not the same as being a stupid drug addict.. so don't even try it with your stupid half @$$ed comparsions.

Just curious, are you high?

Lawrence of Arabia is offline Lawrence of Arabia
King
of the Gulag Archipelago
Apr 2001
time: 06:33
  Old Post 24-02-2004 01:37
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hahaha nah. being high doesnt make you confrontational - it makes you chill out. at least high on bud. i have no desire to try anything else.

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
King
Los Angeles
Apr 2000
time: 02:33
  Old Post 24-02-2004 01:39 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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Just don't compare me to a drug addict. I don't appreciate that.

Lawrence of Arabia is offline Lawrence of Arabia
King
of the Gulag Archipelago
Apr 2001
time: 06:33
  Old Post 24-02-2004 01:41
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the arguments against drugs and gays are very similar.

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
King
Los Angeles
Apr 2000
time: 02:33
  Old Post 24-02-2004 01:52 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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#186 Report this post to a moderator
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quote:
Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia
the arguments against drugs and gays are very similar.


No they aren't.

Lawrence of Arabia is offline Lawrence of Arabia
King
of the Gulag Archipelago
Apr 2001
time: 06:33
  Old Post 24-02-2004 02:01
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#187 Report this post to a moderator
Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

yea they are. you say drugs are immoral, people say that gayness is immoral.

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
King
Los Angeles
Apr 2000
time: 02:33
  Old Post 24-02-2004 02:03 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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#188 Report this post to a moderator
Got spare money?

quote:
Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia
yea they are. you say drugs are immoral, people say that gayness is immoral.


But neither are comparable in any other sense.

Lawrence of Arabia is offline Lawrence of Arabia
King
of the Gulag Archipelago
Apr 2001
time: 06:33
  Old Post 24-02-2004 02:04
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#189 Report this post to a moderator
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one connection is enough.

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
King
Los Angeles
Apr 2000
time: 02:33
  Old Post 24-02-2004 02:05 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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#190 Report this post to a moderator
Get a bigger avatar today!

quote:
Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia
one connection is enough.


No it isn't.

Lawrence of Arabia is offline Lawrence of Arabia
King
of the Gulag Archipelago
Apr 2001
time: 06:33
  Old Post 24-02-2004 02:14
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#191 Report this post to a moderator
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yea it is.

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
King
Los Angeles
Apr 2000
time: 02:33
  Old Post 24-02-2004 03:21 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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#192 Report this post to a moderator
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no it isn't.

GePap is offline GePap
King
of the Big Apple
Nov 2001
time: 23:33
  Old Post 24-02-2004 03:22
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#193 Report this post to a moderator
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH



I never thought a debate would actually devolve to this point......

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Lawrence of Arabia is offline Lawrence of Arabia
King
of the Gulag Archipelago
Apr 2001
time: 06:33
  Old Post 24-02-2004 03:23
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#194 Report this post to a moderator
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yea it is.

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
King
Los Angeles
Apr 2000
time: 02:33
  Old Post 24-02-2004 03:23 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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#195 Report this post to a moderator
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quote:
Originally posted by GePap
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH



I never thought a debate would actually devolve to this point......

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


I'm just playing along.

I wonder what he'll reply with..

And he beat me to it.. so my reply:

No it isn't!

rev is offline rev
Chieftain
Boulder, CO USA
Apr 2001
time: 05:33
  Old Post 24-02-2004 03:57
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#196 Report this post to a moderator
Inflate your Upload Space

quote:
Originally posted by Giancarlo

But neither are comparable in any other sense.


Yes: both are examples of government legislating based on morals rather than crime. Government and its associates don't want someone ingesting marijuana based on a moral repulsion to the very idea of it, so it's made illegal and lies, damned lies, and far-fetched statistics are employed to scare the populace into agreement. Similarly, government and its associates don't want a male 'ingesting' another male's genitals in gany method, so they employ untruths or rexaggerations as scare tactics to keep the populace in agreement: Homosexuals shall never be allowed to do anything together because it will result in your offspring suffering molestation, or THEY MAY EVEN BECOME HOMOSEXUALS THEMSELVES!!1! (scary music goes here).

Government should make *crimes* illegal -- crimes in which there is a victim and a victimizer; they should not legislate morality.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:33
  Old Post 24-02-2004 04:07
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#197 Report this post to a moderator
Remove this text



This is ****ing hilarious...

Lawrence of Arabia is offline Lawrence of Arabia
King
of the Gulag Archipelago
Apr 2001
time: 06:33
  Old Post 24-02-2004 08:16
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#198 Report this post to a moderator
Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

exactly rev. just as there is no victim with using drugs, there is no victim with being gay.

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
King
Los Angeles
Apr 2000
time: 02:33
  Old Post 24-02-2004 08:54 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by rev


Yes: both are examples of government legislating based on morals rather than crime. Government and its associates don't want someone ingesting marijuana based on a moral repulsion to the very idea of it, so it's made illegal and lies, damned lies, and far-fetched statistics are employed to scare the populace into agreement. Similarly, government and its associates don't want a male 'ingesting' another male's genitals in gany method, so they employ untruths or rexaggerations as scare tactics to keep the populace in agreement: Homosexuals shall never be allowed to do anything together because it will result in your offspring suffering molestation, or THEY MAY EVEN BECOME HOMOSEXUALS THEMSELVES!!1! (scary music goes here).

Government should make *crimes* illegal -- crimes in which there is a victim and a victimizer; they should not legislate morality.


You haven't changed. You still are the same old joke you always have been.

Lawrence of Arabia is offline Lawrence of Arabia
King
of the Gulag Archipelago
Apr 2001
time: 06:33
  Old Post 24-02-2004 08:57
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#200 Report this post to a moderator
Suffering from ads?

whos the 'victim' of drug usage? whos the 'victim' of gayness?

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
King
Los Angeles
Apr 2000
time: 02:33
  Old Post 24-02-2004 08:58 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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#201 Report this post to a moderator
Put an end to popups!

Victim of drug usage = you.

Homosexuality is like heterosexuality.. drug addiction is not.

Lawrence of Arabia is offline Lawrence of Arabia
King
of the Gulag Archipelago
Apr 2001
time: 06:33
  Old Post 24-02-2004 08:59
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#202 Report this post to a moderator
Put an end to popups!

and what if i dont consider myself a victim of drug use? how can i be a victim when i voluntairly use it?

rev is offline rev
Chieftain
Boulder, CO USA
Apr 2001
time: 05:33
  Old Post 24-02-2004 09:16
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#203 Report this post to a moderator
Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote:
Originally posted by Giancarlo


You haven't changed. You still are the same old joke you always have been.


Well, for one, I've never claimed to have "changed", so don't put words into my mouth.

Secondly, all I did was reply to your argument with an illustrated standpoint of my own, and all you can do is retaliate with a personal attack.

I'll let that speak for itself.

Aeson is offline Aeson
Emperor
orangesoda
Nov 2001
time: 22:33
  Old Post 24-02-2004 09:45
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#204 Report this post to a moderator
Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

For some drugs (in some situations) the only 'victim' is the user (and they are free to determine whether they are a victim or not IMO). For other drugs there definitely are victims who are not the ones chosing to use the drug or not. In some cases it is the taxpayer, having to support the user or their children. In other cases it's victims of violent crime by those under the influence.

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/abstract/satsfp97.htm (picture from the pdf)

I'll agree that these statistics aren't too meaningful (based on the criminal's word), but they represent the best collection of data I could find on drug use and violent crime. Anyone have a better source of data?

From personal experience I can attest to the effect of drugs on a user's agressiveness, and have been attacked by friends under the influence.

Attachment: drug.jpg
This has been downloaded 32 time(s).

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:33
  Old Post 24-02-2004 09:48
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#205 Report this post to a moderator
Put an end to popups!

Shameful, isn't it Aeson?

CharlesBHoff is offline CharlesBHoff
Prince
el paso texas
May 2002
time: 05:33
  Old Post 24-02-2004 12:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Giancarlo


Legalize drugs? In your dreams. Why the hell should we do that? So people can sell their **** freely in the streets without getting arrested? And maybe some cops want to work in narcotics. Several cops I know here in LA like the job they do.


Legalize drug is the best way to kill the drug catural. If cocain was legal 1 kg will be worth 6 dollar instead 30000 dollar a kg. Heron will be worth 10 dollar a kg instead of 1000,000 dollar a kg.

Lawrence of Arabia is offline Lawrence of Arabia
King
of the Gulag Archipelago
Apr 2001
time: 06:33
  Old Post 24-02-2004 13:12
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cool stats. interesting how drug consupmtion is less likely to make you do violent crimes, since a lot of drugs chill you out, while they are more likely to make you rob houses. alkie seems to have a differnet effect, and makes people more beliigerent.

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
King
Los Angeles
Apr 2000
time: 02:33
  Old Post 24-02-2004 13:20 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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#208 Report this post to a moderator
Suffering from ads?

quote:
If cocain was legal 1 kg will be worth 6 dollar instead 30000 dollar a kg. Heron will be worth 10 dollar a kg instead of 1000,000 dollar a kg.


I'll say this. I understand the positions that people have on marijuana legalisation. But legalising cocaine or heroin? People who want that are half wit idiots who do not have an argument for such a stupid argument.

And just ask yourself this: Who can buy drugs at such high prices? Fewer can. And your numbers are bogus. Also... legalising it will bring in an influx of supply, thus cancelling out any loss in sales for the illegal drug trade.

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
King
of Internet Music.
Sep 2001
time: 21:33
  Old Post 24-02-2004 13:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia
if we legalized drugs, there would be no more overcrowding of jails in california. then we could say a lot of money. not to mention closing the narcotics division of all the police stations and transfering those guys to real crime divisions - like homicide, rape, etc.


That's wrong. I saw a study which showed less then 5% of the people who were in jail were there solely because of drugs. It's a myth to say that legalizing drugs will solce jail over crowding because California already releases most no violent offenders to rehab programs due to over crowding.

Last edited by Oerdin on 24-02-2004 at 14:27

Aeson is offline Aeson
Emperor
orangesoda
Nov 2001
time: 22:33
  Old Post 24-02-2004 14:26
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#210 Report this post to a moderator
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quote:
Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia
cool stats. interesting how drug consupmtion is less likely to make you do violent crimes, since a lot of drugs chill you out, while they are more likely to make you rob houses. alkie seems to have a differnet effect, and makes people more beliigerent.


Well, if you assume that on average, every person in the US is on illicit drugs more than 30% of the time, then you can make a case for using drugs to reduce violent crime rates. I very highly doubt that though, as only 8% of the population uses illicit drugs regularly, and while a good chunk of the remainder may use illicit drugs occasionally or once in a while, it would be virtually impossible for the 8% to pull the 'average time on drugs' up to 100% for 30% of the population (or any equivalent). Given the lack of data in this area, I don't think any hard conclusions can be drawn, so didn't make that assertion. It's too much assumption either way really.

If you do just go by the numbers though, alcohol has more of an impact on crime than drugs. Given that alcohol's effects are similar to many illicit drugs, you would have to assume it is in large part the ease of obtaining alcohol (and perhaps even it's legality) that results in it's higher costs to society. This would disagree with an argument that legalization of drugs with similar effects as being in society's best interest.

I wish there was more defined data though. (anyone know of a source?) To show things well, we need comparable counts of who uses what (lumping all illicit drugs together is bordering on useless) in the criminal (violent or otherwise non-drug violation related) and general population. Then any discrepancies could be made much clearer.

 
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