12-02-2004 15:52									#61
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 However I think the meaning of hedonism is only the pursuit of "pleasures" that are more on the physical/material and not the intellectual/spititual/cognitive side.

In which case I am not a hedonist. I agree on the meaning, which is why I don't consider myself a hedonist. I believe in maximising happiness, whatever that person believes happiness to be. If it is physical, then it is physical, if it is intellectual, then it is intellectual. People refer to a hedonistic lifestyle as wild parties, etc. which is now what I mean. That may result in the most happiness, but a longer life, at a slower pace, may result in more happiness. It depends on the person. If hedonism is pleasure in any form, then curling up in front of a fire with a book would be as hedonistic and a wild party, because it can give as much happiness, depending on the person.

	12-02-2004 15:53									#62
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quote: Originally posted by Drogue I have answered that earlier. If the purpose of life is to create more life, then the purpose of life is still simply life itself.

The purpose of life is not to make more life, but to spread your own genetic information as much as possible.

quote: Originally posted by Drogue That is not a meaning, that is just a biological reaction to keep the species going.

I (or rather, you) did not say meaning. You used the word "purpose." Meaning is only a human thing, purpose exists in a broader scope. Take for example, a fish's gills. It has no meaning, but the purpose of these things are to filter out oxygen dissolved in water, allowing the fish to breathe.

It is a fine but important distinction.

	12-02-2004 15:54									#63
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I think the point of life is to be creative.

To leave behind art, music or culture to inspire future peoples.

	12-02-2004 15:55									#64
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UR: Very true. I would admit then, that some people's purpose, and indeed our species as a whole's purpose, is to survive and procreate. Furthering the species is a purpose. However I would still contend that that has no meaning. We live because we live, there is nothing more to it. Life is gratuitous, it has no meaning.

I also think we have biologically adapted that procreation, the furthering of the species, is pleasurable, so that in order for the individual to experience pleasure, the species as a whole gains.

	12-02-2004 16:04									#65
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quote: Originally posted by Drogue However I would still contend that that has no meaning. We live because we live, there is nothing more to it. Life is gratuitous, it has no meaning.

I agree, life has no intrinsic meaning. As I said before, you can find a meaning for yourself.

	12-02-2004 16:07									#66
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I'm not sure I agree. I think you can find purpose. For instance, someone you love falls very ill, and you find purpose in helping them. However I wouldn't call that meaning. I think maybe we agree, but are using different terms. I see meaning as being intrinsic.

	12-02-2004 16:23									#67
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quote: Life is meaningless

Yeah. So?

	12-02-2004 16:24									#68
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quote: Originally posted by VJ Yeah. So?

I wouldn't expect anything else from a man with a Pat Bateman avatar

	12-02-2004 16:24									#69
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger The purpose of life is not to make more life, but to spread your own genetic information as much as possible.

I wouldn't say thats a raison d'etre, unless you say that evolutionary design equals purpose.

	12-02-2004 16:24									#70
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Suppose you decide to help those people in need as much as you can. I will say you have found a meaning for your life.

	12-02-2004 16:25									#71
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quote: If life only has meaning because we give it meaning, how can we console someone who is suicidal? Clearly, for him, his life has no meaning, and we ought to encourage him to off himself.

Yes.



Wait, you hadn't figured it out earlier than this?

quote: or you cannot rescue a person desiring suicide

"Rescue"?

	12-02-2004 16:26									#72
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Suppose you decide to help those people in need as much as you can. I will say you have found a meaning for your life.

I would say you have found a purpose, but since, in the grand picture of things, what we do has no effect, I would say it is still meaningless.

I think I mean meaning as you mean intrinsic meaning, and I would use purpose for that, as you described above. Not only do I not think there is an intrinsic meaning, as in meaning belongs to life by it's nature, I don't think there is an external meaning either. Indeed, I don't believe there is a point to life either. You can give yourself purpose, and you could use the word meaning for that, but that is semantics. I agee you could find a purpose in helping others, but I do not think that classes as a meaning to me.

	12-02-2004 16:27									#73
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quote: Originally posted by Big Crunch I wouldn't say thats a raison d'etre, unless you say that evolutionary design equals purpose.

What's the purpose of your lungs? In other words, why are they there?

Along the same vein, why are individual organisams are here?

	12-02-2004 16:29									#74
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger What's the purpose of your lungs? In other words, why are they there?

To breathe

quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Along the same vein, why are individual organisams are here?

To live.

	12-02-2004 16:30									#75
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quote: Originally posted by Drogue I would say you have found a purpose, but since, in the grand picture of things, what we do has no effect, I would say it is still meaningless.

I see that you are a pessimist

quote: Originally posted by Drogue I think I mean meaning as you mean intrinsic meaning, and I would use purpose for that, as you described above.

Meaning is entirely a subjective interpretation though, while purpose is objective.

	12-02-2004 16:34									#76
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger What's the purpose of your lungs? In other words, why are they there? Along the same vein, why are individual organisams are here?

You'd die without lungs. And without you your lungs would have no purpose.

You'd die out without procreating, but without procreating you would still have purpose.

	12-02-2004 16:35									#77
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger I see that you are a pessimist

No. I believe you can help people. I find it conforting that there is no meaning to life or to the world. When I mean the grand scheme of things, I mean humanity will end, at some point. There are a finite number of resources in the universe. That ending cannot be changed. I am usually regarded as an optimist, because I look on the bright side of things. I find it conforting that our actions, which having consequences in the short term, do not in the long term.

quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Meaning is entirely a subjective interpretation though, while purpose is objective.

How do you get that? What makes one objective and one subjective. Purpose is what something does, why it is there. Meaning is why does it have that purpose, what does it hope to achieve. That's a bad explanation, but basically what I mean. I have a purpose to do something, but I don't think life has a meaning. If you believe your meaning in life is to make life better for others, than that is your purpose, to me. Your meaning would still be nothing, because there is no underlying meaning in being alive. Since there is no underlying meaning in being alive, helping others who are alive is also meaningless.

	12-02-2004 16:37									#78
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Edit -Forget that, I don't know where I was going with that.

	12-02-2004 17:58									#79
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Life has meaning only if you get up off your ass and make it so. That should ring true for those that believe in a god or those that do not. If a person can sit there and say their life has no meaning than it's only because they failed to give it a meaning.

	12-02-2004 18:09									#80
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Some of us get off our asses but still realise that there is no meaning in life. There is no reason to be here. IMHO, you cannot give meaning to something that has none. There is no reason why life exists, nor does it matter. Our lives are merely our lives, whatever we make of them. There is no meaning behind it.

	12-02-2004 18:39									#81
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quote: Originally posted by Drogue Some of us get off our asses but still realise that there is no meaning in life. There is no reason to be here. IMHO, you cannot give meaning to something that has none. There is no reason why life exists, nor does it matter. Our lives are merely our lives, whatever we make of them. There is no meaning behind it.

So those people who say there is meaning to their life are telling a lie? Or simply deluded? And if you think that, who are you to say their life has no meaning.

	12-02-2004 18:51									#82
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Life is meaningless...
Great, so I'm free to give it the meaning I want.
Isn't that wonderful?

	12-02-2004 18:51									#83
	Re: Life is meaningless Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Dissident or is it?

Dissident, if you're too lazy to think through this question on your own and post your thoughts on it then you dont deserve to hear my thoughts on the topic. If the question has you stumped then at least admit it.

Eventually, if this thread is like most others in OT, it will decay into a shouting match between 2 or 3 people and most probably wind up discussing off-thread-topic. As a thread creator you have the responsibility to moderate the discussion to the degree that you are able to by continually posting in the thread to keep it on-topic.

	12-02-2004 18:58									#84
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From an individual point of view, the question is not interesting; but the role and place of life in cosmology is worth to be asked. I am under the impression that any answer we could find would be unpleasant.

	12-02-2004 18:59									#85
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I think Dissident is just feeling a little down, and so more inclined to be brusque. If you have thoughts, please post them.

	12-02-2004 19:23									#86
	Re: Re: Life is meaningless Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by bfg9000 Eventually, if this thread is like most others in OT, it will decay into a shouting match between 2 or 3 people and most probably wind up discussing off-thread-topic. As a thread creator you have the responsibility to moderate the discussion to the degree that you are able to by continually posting in the thread to keep it on-topic.

In order to push the jacking ahead, a general question to those that may be lurking in the thread but don't give a damn about the meaning of life.

Who is the reigning poly champing of post and run?

	12-02-2004 19:38									#87
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quote: Originally posted by Big Crunch This thread is meaningless.... Life has no meaning or purpose, other than what you assign to it yourself.

Couldn't said it any better myself.

	12-02-2004 20:11									#88
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Life is a fairly isolated anomaly of random organic compounds interacting with one another. It should be examined carefully to determine what resources can be extracted for our personal benefit.

	13-02-2004 11:58									#89
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I expected more no responses

	13-02-2004 12:06									#90
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I don't know if life has meaning. All I know is life. I do not know death. Perhaps there is something when we die. But nobody on EARTH knows... and that will remain true through all eternity.

It's absolutely stupid believe some other human being knows what happens when we die, because I can promise you, he doesn't. What makes this worse is that people are basing their faith on a two thousand year old book designed to keep order in Christian Europe.