Apolyton Archive  |  Preserved copy of the Apolyton Civilization Site and its forums as they stood in September 2005. Read-only; nothing here can be posted to or replied to.  |  Forum index |  About this archive |  The 1998–2001 UBB forums
Today on Apolyton WARDELL INTERVIEW PROMO A.C.S. HISTORY CHAPTER 4 GET CIV4 /w FREE PLUS! A.C.S. PHOTO GALLERY GET A.O.M. V1.1
Apolyton Civilization Forums
main| civ2| civ3| civ4| smac| ctp2| ron| moo3| galciv| galciv2| alt| about|
ApolytonPLUS | register | search | faq | new posts | pm (-/-) | upload | members
hall of fame new! | civgroups | civgroups news | interviews | the column | radio | chat | directory | news | store | PLUS
Apolyton Civilization Forums : Powered by vBulletin version 2.0.3 Apolyton Civilization Forums > Miscellaneous > Archive > Off-Topic-Archive > Scientists Accuse White House of Distorting Facts
Show a Printable Version | Email This Page to Someone! | Receive updates to this thread | Report this to Apolyton news!

bottom of page
  
Author
Thread   
Pages (4): [ 1   2   3   4   ]
< Last Thread     Next Thread > Post New Thread     Post A Reply
Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:34
  Old Post 19-02-2004 00:45
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#1 Report this post to a moderator
Scientists Accuse White House of Distorting Facts Inflate your Upload Space

quote:
February 18, 2004
Scientists Accuse White House of Distorting Facts
By JAMES GLANZ

he Bush administration has deliberately and systematically distorted scientific fact in the service of policy goals on the environment, health, biomedical research and nuclear weaponry at home and abroad, a group of about 60 influential scientists, including 20 Nobel laureates, said in a statement issued today.

The sweeping charges were later discussed in a conference call with some of the scientists that was organized by the Union of Concerned Scientists, an independent organization that focuses on technical issues and has often taken stands at odds with administration policy. The organization also issued a 37-page report today that it said detailed the accusations.

Together, the two documents accuse the administration of repeatedly censoring and suppressing reports by its own scientists, stacking advisory committees with unqualified political appointees, disbanding government panels that provide unwanted advice, and refusing to seek any independent scientific expertise in some cases.

"Other administrations have, on occasion, engaged in such practices, but not so systematically nor on so wide a front," the statement from the scientists said, adding that they believed the administration had "misrepresented scientific knowledge and misled the public about the implications of its policies."

The White House had no immediate comment on the statements.

Dr. Kurt Gottfried, an emeritus professor of physics at Cornell University who signed the statement and spoke in the conference call, said the administration had "engaged in practices that are in conflict with the spirit of science and the scientific method." Dr. Gottfried asserted that what he called "the cavalier attitude toward science" could place at risk the basis for the nation's long-term prosperity, health and military prowess.

The scientists denied that they had political motives in releasing the documents as the 2004 presidential race began to take clear shape, a day after Senator John Kerry won the Wisconsin Democratic primary and solidified his position as President Bush's likely opponent in the fall. The organization's report, Dr. Gottfried said, had taken a year to prepare — much longer than originally planned — and had been released as soon as it was ready.

"I don't see it as a partisan issue at all," said Russell Train, who served as administrator of the Environmental Protection Agency under Presidents Richard M. Nixon and Gerald R. Ford, and who spoke in the conference call in support of the statement. "If it becomes that way I think it's because the White House chooses to make it a partisan issue," Mr. Train said.


from http://www.nytimes.com/2004/02/18/s...ND-RESE.html?hp

lying, misrepresentation of facts, manipulation... putting unqualified political appointees on advisery boards... censoring opposition... yup, sounds like the Bush admin

What really scares me is the mention of nuclear weaponry. Yes, the environment, health, and bio-medical fields are all important... but to distort information about nuclear weapons is sick and twisted beyond belief. It's like we have sadists in the White House.

Anyone know any of the specifics that these scientists are talking about?

I first heard alarm bells when environmentally unfriendly political appointee Christine Todd-Whitman of the EPA quit because of such practices by the Bush admin. I mean, if someone like Whitman can't even stand what the admin is doing, they must be doing something really horrible.

more to follow

Arrian is offline Arrian
Emperor
Kneel before Grog!
Jul 2001
time: 00:34
  Old Post 19-02-2004 00:49
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#2 Report this post to a moderator
Suffering from ads?

I actually had a similar reaction to Whitman's resignation. Then again, for all I know she could have resigned for some personal reason (I didn't actually read up on it or anything).

I'm not sure that calling Whitman "environmentally unfriendly" is fair, by the way. Are you basing that on the facts that she is a Republican and former governor of NJ, or on her record in office?

-Arrian

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:34
  Old Post 19-02-2004 00:51
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#3 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote:
or on her record in office?
this one...

The diplomat is offline The diplomat
King
Terre Haute, IN USA
Sep 1999
time: 23:34
  Old Post 19-02-2004 00:52
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#4 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Why should I believe these scientists? How do I know they are not lying about the Bush admin?

Defiant is offline Defiant
King
WISCONSIN
Aug 1999
time: 05:34
  Old Post 19-02-2004 00:52
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#5 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Yes Sava,
Lets get to the specifics, and the timing of this so called release after the Wisconsin primary and Dean withdrawing was simple a coinsidence, r...........i...............g......................h.........................t.
What did Bush do, decide to cut funding for examining mold growing on cheese to piss these guys off.

MRT144 is offline MRT144
Chieftain
Seattle Washington
Oct 2002
time: 21:34
  Old Post 19-02-2004 00:54
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#6 Report this post to a moderator
Inflate your Upload Space

diplomat, why should you believe the bush admin?

Defiant is offline Defiant
King
WISCONSIN
Aug 1999
time: 05:34
  Old Post 19-02-2004 00:56
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#7 Report this post to a moderator
Inflate your Upload Space

for that matter why should we believe anybody..........................

Dauphin is offline Dauphin
Emperor
Caught in a tuna net
Jan 1970
time: 05:34
  Old Post 19-02-2004 01:03
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#8 Report this post to a moderator
Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote:
Originally posted by The diplomat
Why should I believe these scientists? How do I know they are not lying about the Bush admin?


Because their conclusions are peer reviewed.

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:34
  Old Post 19-02-2004 01:05
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#9 Report this post to a moderator
Suffering from ads?

quote:
Why should I believe these scientists? How do I know they are not lying about the Bush admin?
uhmmm because they are really really really smart...

defiant: yes, let's believe the bush admin over the word of 60 scientists... 10 NOBEL LAUREATES...

The diplomat is offline The diplomat
King
Terre Haute, IN USA
Sep 1999
time: 23:34
  Old Post 19-02-2004 01:06
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#10 Report this post to a moderator
Tired of ads?

quote:
Originally posted by MRT144
diplomat, why should you believe the bush admin?


Show me proof that the Bush admin distorted scientific facts for political reasons, and I'll believe the scientists.

But unlike Sava and the Left, I am not going to automatically assume that Bush is lying just cause somebody says so.

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:34
  Old Post 19-02-2004 01:07
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#11 Report this post to a moderator
Suffering from ads?

quote:
But unlike Sava and the Left, I am not going to automatically assume that Bush is lying just cause somebody says so.

wow your really really live in a strange little world...

this isn't just SOMEONE... it's probably 60 of the smartest people in the country. 10... yes 10 NOBEL LAUREATES.

Maybe if I repeat that enough, you will comprehend.

The diplomat is offline The diplomat
King
Terre Haute, IN USA
Sep 1999
time: 23:34
  Old Post 19-02-2004 01:08
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#12 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote:
Originally posted by Sava
uhmmm because they are really really really smart...

defiant: yes, let's believe the bush admin over the word of 60 scientists... 10 NOBEL LAUREATES...



Just because they are scientists, does not mean that they can't lie. Scientists are people too, with political biases like everyone else!

Defiant is offline Defiant
King
WISCONSIN
Aug 1999
time: 05:34
  Old Post 19-02-2004 01:08
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#13 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote:
Originally posted by Sava
uhmmm because they are really really really smart...

defiant: yes, let's believe the bush admin over the word of 60 scientists... 10 NOBEL LAUREATES...



Yes, because they are NOBEL LAUREATES, they have no political views , lets get to the specifics and then see what other scientists have to say about their claims, fair and balanced baby, you know the term.

lightblue is offline lightblue
Chieftain
L'Boro, UK
Oct 2001
time: 05:34
  Old Post 19-02-2004 01:11
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#14 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Says 20 not 10...

Defiant is offline Defiant
King
WISCONSIN
Aug 1999
time: 05:34
  Old Post 19-02-2004 01:12
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#15 Report this post to a moderator
Increase the size of your Attachments

What? Sava make a mistake, so it isn't so, crap makes me worse, I followed his lead.

The diplomat is offline The diplomat
King
Terre Haute, IN USA
Sep 1999
time: 23:34
  Old Post 19-02-2004 01:12
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#16 Report this post to a moderator
Remove this text

quote:
Originally posted by Sava
wow your really really live in a strange little world...

this isn't just SOMEONE... it's probably 60 of the smartest people in the country. 10... yes 10 NOBEL LAUREATES.

Maybe if I repeat that enough, you will comprehend.


Of course they are super smart and well-educated. So? Just because they are super smart, doesn't mean that they can't have biases or personal motivations to lie.

Smart people can lie too you know.

Dauphin is offline Dauphin
Emperor
Caught in a tuna net
Jan 1970
time: 05:34
  Old Post 19-02-2004 01:12
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#17 Report this post to a moderator
Inflate your Upload Space

quote:
Originally posted by Sava
wow your really really live in a strange little world...

this isn't just SOMEONE... it's probably 60 of the smartest people in the country. 10... yes 10 NOBEL LAUREATES.

Maybe if I repeat that enough, you will comprehend.


YOU ARE WRONG!!!

The article says 20.

GePap is offline GePap
King
of the Big Apple
Nov 2001
time: 23:34
  Old Post 19-02-2004 01:13
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#18 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote:
"I don't see it as a partisan issue at all," said Russell Train, who served as administrator of the Environmental Protection Agency under Presidents Richard M. Nixon and Gerald R. Ford, and who spoke in the conference call in support of the statement. "If it becomes that way I think it's because the White House chooses to make it a partisan issue," Mr. Train said.


Those Nixon demopinkocommielefties!

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:34
  Old Post 19-02-2004 01:13
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#19 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote:
Just because they are scientists, does not mean that they can't lie. Scientists are people too, with political biases like everyone else!


quote:
Originally posted by Defiant
Yes, because they are NOBEL LAUREATES, they have no political views , lets get to the specifics and then see what other scientists have to say about their claims, fair and balanced baby, you know the term.


I'm starting to notice something about right-wingers. I mean, some people think liberals are crackpot conspiracists... but man... you should hear yourselves...

Instead of trying to present information to support your point of view... you guys just say "OMFG the scientists are politically biased."

gee, I wonder what kind of bias a former NIXON and FORD administration official has...

I'm amazed that people still harp on the same bs responses to everything that illustrates their side is wrong.

Defiant is offline Defiant
King
WISCONSIN
Aug 1999
time: 05:34
  Old Post 19-02-2004 01:13
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#20 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote:
Originally posted by Sava
wow your really really live in a strange little world...

this isn't just SOMEONE... it's probably 60 of the smartest people in the country. 10... yes 10 NOBEL LAUREATES.

Maybe if I repeat that enough, you will comprehend.


That's a true liberal speaking, "if I say a lie enough times, maybe you will believe it".

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:34
  Old Post 19-02-2004 01:14
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#21 Report this post to a moderator
Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

defiant, diplomat... you guys are hopeless.

Defiant is offline Defiant
King
WISCONSIN
Aug 1999
time: 05:34
  Old Post 19-02-2004 01:16
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#22 Report this post to a moderator
Suffering from ads?

quote:
Originally posted by Sava
defiant, diplomat... you guys are hopeless.


Sorry Sava that we don't believe your half-trueths, and incomplete information, we just ain't those sheep you want to herd.

Dauphin is offline Dauphin
Emperor
Caught in a tuna net
Jan 1970
time: 05:34
  Old Post 19-02-2004 01:16
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#23 Report this post to a moderator
Inflate your Upload Space

I'm sure these scientist probably have lobbyist motives, but I doubt they are lying or exaggerating. They aren't politicians.

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:34
  Old Post 19-02-2004 01:19
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#24 Report this post to a moderator
Get a bigger avatar today!

quote:
Originally posted by Defiant
Sorry Sava that we don't believe your half-trueths, and incomplete information, we just ain't those sheep you want to herd.
sorry... I figured you were smart enough to realize these aren't my "truths"... I'm just relaying what others have said.

quote:
I'm sure these scientist probably have lobbyist motives, but I doubt they are lying or exaggerating. They aren't politicians.



from the article:

quote:
"I don't see it as a partisan issue at all," said Russell Train, who served as administrator of the Environmental Protection Agency under Presidents Richard M. Nixon and Gerald R. Ford
yes this is all a democrat conspiracy

Defiant is offline Defiant
King
WISCONSIN
Aug 1999
time: 05:34
  Old Post 19-02-2004 01:20
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#25 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote:
Originally posted by Big Crunch
I'm sure these scientist probably have lobbyist motives, but I doubt they are lying or exaggerating. They aren't politicians.


Big Crunch,
We will never know until Sava or someone prints the report itself and then find other scientists to rebut and then see if the rebuttle can stand up as legit, but hell, we don't even have the 37 pages to review but we are supposed to all beat up on Bush without knowing the content of this claim. If you are that gullable I have some land in Louisana I would like to sell you.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:34
  Old Post 19-02-2004 01:23 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#26 Report this post to a moderator
Remove this text

quote:
Originally posted by Defiant


Sorry Sava that we don't believe your half-trueths, and incomplete information, we just ain't those sheep you want to herd.


Well, you are sheep, and you're used to herding. You just mistaken wolves for sheepdogs.

Dauphin is offline Dauphin
Emperor
Caught in a tuna net
Jan 1970
time: 05:34
  Old Post 19-02-2004 01:23
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#27 Report this post to a moderator
Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

What am I supposed to be gullible of? And where have I beat up on Bush?

Defiant is offline Defiant
King
WISCONSIN
Aug 1999
time: 05:34
  Old Post 19-02-2004 01:24
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#28 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

You are right Che,
The sheperd that leads me to more of my money back in my pocket and kicks you commies out of my country.

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:34
  Old Post 19-02-2004 01:24
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#29 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote:
We will never know until Sava or someone prints the report itself and then find other scientists to rebut and then see if the rebuttle can stand up as legit, but hell, we don't even have the 37 pages to review but we are supposed to all beat up on Bush without knowing the content of this claim. If you are that gullable I have some land in Louisana I would like to sell you
I think Big Crunch is one of those educated people who recognize when something is probably credible.

He's obviously not a right-wing conspiracy theory nut.

Defiant is offline Defiant
King
WISCONSIN
Aug 1999
time: 05:34
  Old Post 19-02-2004 01:26
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#30 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote:
Originally posted by Big Crunch
What am I supposed to be gullible of? And where have I beat up on Bush?


Big Crunch,
Review the article, it only says Bush is bad, no specific claims yet, but Sava right away is branding Bush, wouldn't want to know why?

 
Pages (4): [ 1   2   3   4   ]
< Last Thread     Next Thread > Post New Thread     Post A Reply
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:34.
Apolyton Time is 00:34.
    top of page
Rate This Thread:
archivepost
Forum Jump:
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
 




Contact Us - Apolyton Civilization Site - Support Us!

Building a better Apolyton through better information. Click here and take our poll!
Non-US visitors, click here!

Powered by: vBulletin Version 2.0.3
Copyright ©2000, 2001, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.

Page generated in 0.0637 seconds (91.87% PHP - 8.13% MySQL) with 31 queries
Page Loading Time:

Support Apolyton: Amazon USA | Amazon UK | Amazon DE | Amazon FR |
Support Apolyton and get FREE PLUS, Buy from Chips&Bits: Galactic Civilizations | Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition | Call to Power 2 | Civilization: The Boardgame | GURPS/ Alpha Centauri | Alpha Centauri | Civilization IV | Civilization III: Complete |


Front Page | Civilization IV | Civilization III | Civilization II | Call to Power II | Alpha Centauri | Master of Orion III
Rise of Nations | Galactic Civilizations | Galactic Civilizations II | Misc
Alt.Civs | Civ I | C:CtP I | About | News | Directory | Apolyton Store | Forums | Chat | Columns | Interviews | Newsletter
Scenario League | CSC | Clash of Civs | Spanish Site | CtP Maps | Cradle of Civ | WesW's Ctp1/2 Site | Civ3 Haven

apolyton.net | apolyton.com | civilization2.net | civilization3.net | civilization4.net | civilizationiv.info | calltopower.net | galciv.net | galciv2.net | moo3.net