19-02-2004 20:34									#31
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the thing is, Jamski, that more people make it easier in a nonlinear fashion

because we always gang up on monsters to take them down

I mean, when 6 people are nailing you, even if you are even with the members of the group in levels, you are going to go down really fast

and so should be worth a lot less xp

Jon Miller

	19-02-2004 20:39									#32
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are possible CRs these?

n ... 5 4 3 2 1 1/2 1/3 1/4 1/6 1/8

?

so Encounter = CR of higthest +1 per additional monster of equal to highest or one less level + 1/2 per additional monster of 2-3 less levels + 1/3 per addional monster of 4-5 less levels +...

Jon Miller

	19-02-2004 20:40									#33
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compare that to average party level +1 per member over 4 and than devide the result by number of party members

Jon Miller

	19-02-2004 20:45									#34
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so we once fought a battle (earlier) with 2 humans (CRs of roughly 3, maybe 4), 2 halfelves (Similiar CRs), 4 orcs and 5 goblins

we had 3 members of level 5

so that would maybe be 4 + 3 + 2 + 1 versus 5 - 1

giving 10 (or 8 if my memory is bad) versus 4 (or 5)? that is really nice to us (one of us almost died BTW (because he got 2 crits against him by the two humans) and I lost half my HP)

Jon Miller

	19-02-2004 20:47									#35
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I say that you should forget such precise calculations, and just let the GM decide roughly how much XP you have.
Also, I don't think that you should be able to level up in the middle of a session. The character should continue as though everything is normal, and will only be able to take advantage of the new powers once the party have rested.
This way, the GM can control when characters level up better than telling them how many XP points they won in each battle/for solving each puzzle.

	19-02-2004 20:55									#36
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we generally have the GM tell us what we have after every couple of gaming sessions

personally I think that XP shuold be given for roleplay rather than solving puzzles (because what about the low int people or what have you?) but that is just me

roleplay, quest, and monster killing

my group is inclined to give it for saying what the GM is thinking and making clever comments (As well as quest and monster killing)

we actually can't level up until we find someone to train us, which can be hard for some of us

Jon Millker

	19-02-2004 21:03									#37
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Sorry about that: when I said solving puzzles I meant the whole cerebral part of the game, whether proper, in character roleplaying, or completing quests and challenges. The reason I think that the XP should be down to the discretion of the GM is exactly that you say: solving puzzles will obviously benefit the characters with higher intelligence, so they should get more XP for that sort of thing, fighters get more XP for battles and other character classes should be rewarded for class- or alignment- appropriate actions.

	19-02-2004 21:49									#38
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added idea

take less than ones and add the CRs of them before any other part of the calculation is done

like 9 goblins would be 3 CR 1s or an EL of 3 (if they are the highest), a warg and 9 goblins would be an EL of 4 (rounding down)

hmm, maybe close should include 2 lower (I realised I misread you)

Jon Miller

	19-02-2004 22:09									#39
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ok, retry

a warg (CR 3) and 9 goblins (1/3 each) would correspond to 3 + 1 x (1/3 * 3 * 3) = 6

9 goblins would be (1/3 * 9) = 3

4 humans (CR 4s) + 4 Orcs (CR 1/2s ?) + 6 Goblins (CR 1/3s) = 4 + 1 * 4 + 1/2 * (1/2 * 4 + 1/3 * 6) = 10

4 humans (CR 3s) + 4 Orcs (CRs 1/2 ?) + 6 Goblins (CR 1/3s) = 3 + 1 * 4 + 1 * (1/2 * 4 + 1/3 * 6) = 11

nope, that algorithim doesn't make sense

how about (CR of Highest) + (Number of highest if more than 1) + (Sum for all lower CRs) (number of monsters of given CR - 2 ^ (CR of highest - CR of monsters of given CR))

so like this
CRH = CR of highest
NCRH = number of CR of Highest
CR = CR
NCR = number of CR

so EL = CRH + (NCRH if NCRH>1) + Sum over CR (NCR - 2^(CRH-CR))

this is no longer me just trying to ask a simple question, this is me wasting time trying to make up an algorithim that makes sense

Jon Miller

	19-02-2004 23:28									#40
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According to the faq, you should take the highest CR and add to it based on the difficulty of additional creatures. So

4 humans (CR 4s) + 4 Orcs (CR 1/2s ?) + 6 Goblins (CR 1/3s)

Highest CR is 4.
+4 for 4 of them (note this is not linear, 8 would only be +6).

The Orcs and goblins together barely make up a CR3 encounter so in total only add another +1

Final EL 9


9 goblins CR 1/3:

Its 4 1/3 goblins = EL1
so you effectively have just over two CR1 monsters. +2

Final EL 3



A warg (CR3) plus those 9 Goblins (Total EL3) is the same as two CR 3 monsters, therefore 3 + 2

Final EL 5.

	20-02-2004 00:15									#41
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how about this

highest CR - 1
+
number of enemies of highest CR or 1 less
+
do standard CR addition on lower enemies (following this formula, so it is recursive) to see if there there are any added together that equal highest CR, throw away any remainders

so a warg + 4 goblins would only be an EL of 3 (unless 1 is close enough to 3 to count in which case it will be 4)

I have the dmg at home, so I can check a little later

Jon Miller

	20-02-2004 04:55									#42
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I didn't realise anyone was actually that bothered to work it out. Get the GM to guess within about 200-300 EXP and you'll be fine.

-Jam

	20-02-2004 05:10									#43
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I din't have anything better to do

Jon Miller

	20-02-2004 05:23									#44
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Is your game like "on hold" for 24 hours while you work out the EXP

-Jam

	20-02-2004 05:42									#45
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no

we only play once a week

we have only played 3 times

Jon Miller

	25-02-2004 01:59									#46
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dnd always looked cool, but inever kniow anybody who plays it, so i never got to try it . I used to have one of those character glossary books when i was a kid though, it is really good for an overactive imagination!

	25-02-2004 10:52									#47
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another question

is all that a wizard can summon be fiendish and celestial things?

or can a wizard summon things like elementals and the like

Jon Miller

	25-02-2004 12:31									#48
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I think there are separate spells to summon elementals.

	25-02-2004 14:51									#49
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Yes - it depends upon what kind of wizard you've got.

	25-02-2004 17:24									#50
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And spells to summon "creatures" and undead as well...

A wizard can summon most things.

-Jam

	26-02-2004 03:01									#51
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btw

this is just a general question

what two Spell School would you drop in order to specialize

Jon Milelr

	26-02-2004 03:02									#52
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also

what feats would you take as a wizard?

JOn Miller

	26-02-2004 03:39									#53
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I'd drop "Enchantment" (pah, charm spells) and "Erkentniss" (The school that has Identify in) but try and get a wand of Identify made.

As for feats, extend spell, maximise spell, empower spell are all nice. Elemental focus is good, still spell is handy. Wizards get loads of feats anyway. Take them all. You don't need the weapon feats. Take school specialisations Evokation and Necromancy and Spell penetration too.

-Jam

	26-02-2004 03:48									#54
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umm

divination can't be dropped as a standard cost, since spells in it are less important than spells in the other schools

so I can't drop that one

I was thinking I would drop necromancy

if you specialize (if I understand that right) than you have to drop two other schools completely (unless you specialize in divination in which case you only have to drop one other school), I don't want to do that twice (anyways you can only do it twice if you become a wizard of thay or an incantrix)

JonMiller

	26-02-2004 03:57									#55
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Oh. We've been playing wrong then.

Either DON'T specialise (be a sorc if you must have more spells) or specialise in "Divination" and drop the charm spells. They always make the save and you have to kill them anyway...

OR, don't be a powergamer like me, and drop Necromany and Evocation

-Jam

	26-02-2004 04:22									#56
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I figure that I only need one set of attack spells

so Evocation it is (I like Fireball and Magic Missile, but maybe Necromancy is better?)

Jon Miller

	26-02-2004 04:31									#57
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lower levels evocation difintiely seems better than necromancy

level 1

Necro
Cause Fear: One creature of 5 HD or less flees for 1d4 rounds.
Chill Touch: One touch/level deals 1d6 damage and possibly 1 Str damage.
Ray of Enfeeblement: Ray deals 1d6 +1 per two levels Str damage.


Evoc
Burning Hands: 1d4/level fire damage (max 5d4).
Floating Disk: Creates 3-ft.-diameter horizontal disk that holds 100 lb./level.
Magic Missile: 1d4+1 damage; +1 missile per two levels above 1st (max 5).
Shocking Grasp: Touch delivers 1d6/level electricity damage (max 5d6).

2 level

Necro
Blindness/Deafness: Makes subject blinded or deafened.
Command Undead: Undead creature obeys your commands.
False Life: Gain 1d10 temporary hp +1/level (max +10).
Ghoul Touch: Paralyzes one subject, which exudes stEnch
that makes those nearby sickened.
Scare: Panics creatures of less than 6 HD.
Spectral Hand: Creates disembodied glowing hand to deliver touch attacks.


Evoc
Continual Flame M: Makes a permanent, heatless torch.
Darkness: 20-ft. radius of supernatural shadow.
Flaming Sphere: Creates rolling ball of fire, 2d6 damage, lasts 1 round/level.
Gust of Wind: Blows away or knocks down smaller creatures.
Scorching Ray: Ranged touch attack deals 4d6 fire damage, +1 ray/four levels (max 3).
Shatter: Sonic vibration damages objects or crystalline creatures.


3rd

Evoc
Daylight: 60-ft. radius of bright light.
Fireball: 1d6 damage per level, 20-ft. radius.
Lightning Bolt: Electricity deals 1d6/level damage.
Tiny Hut: Creates shelter for ten creatures.
Wind Wall: Deflects arrows, smaller creatures, and gases.


Necro
Gentle Repose: Preserves one corpse.
Halt Undead: Immobilizes undead for 1 round/level.
Ray of Exhaustion: Ray makes subject exhausted.
Vampiric Touch: Touch deals 1d6/two levels damage; caster gains damage as hp.


these are from http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/article/srd35

JOn Miller

	26-02-2004 04:34									#58
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I was joking.

I would NEVER drop evoc and necro. (because I am a powergamer, but you could role-play a non-bombarding wizard)

-Jam

	26-02-2004 04:36									#59
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Oh, and those low-level "scare" spells are GREAT. Goblins and Kobolds flee in terror

Isn't "Skull Trap" a 3rd level necro spell? That's better than Fireball.

-Jam

	26-02-2004 04:48									#60
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I can see that Necro is good (As is Enchantment)

I just think that it is good to have some Envoc arround if Dam needs to be dealt

so I guess I am trying to decide which of these three to drop

enchantment, necromancy, illusion

trans, evoc, and conjur I am all pretty sure that I want to keep

abjur is crucial, and div I can't drop (Besides it is useful)

Jon Miller