21-02-2004 00:43									#61
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Trip: Please post all correspondence you had with Lucky that brought this to conclusion.

	21-02-2004 01:57									#62
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GCA can pick the list for mongoose to approve. I know that you're not a fan of this BF, but we're really dealing with the abstract here, and even giving them a number like 75% is purely subjective. Getting them to disband just 50% is a major victory for us.

Getting peace is the real positive change of all this. GCA gets rid of their units in the lake and we get peace.

	21-02-2004 02:01									#63
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That is BS unless mongoose agrees to make it random. Why don't you stand firm on that? CGN and CFC will back us most assuredly. I'll even bet GWT could not argue against the random disbanding. Why on earth would GCA get to determine who lives and who dies?

	21-02-2004 02:12									#64
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Yeah yeah, BF, I know, you're distraught at me pawning away every last bit of our effort the past week. All is lost. It's horrible, I know.

We were losing grip on GWT accepting the 390 AD replay. They began leaning towards continuing the game from where we were. Unless we came to an agreement soon, they would bail and we'd end up having to continue from where we were. The entire reason this has gone so well is because GWT has been responsive to this compromise.

	21-02-2004 02:18									#65
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I hope the disbanding will be done outside a city, so it won't gain them shields. Also, one remark: if the idea is that by galley they would have lost a lot of their army, this also implies they will lose their army: it couldn't fit on a galley as that only has space for a 1-unit army.

Otherwise I'd have to say you handled it well, BF and Trip...

Now back to lurking

DeepO

	21-02-2004 02:19									#66
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Their army only had 1 unit on it, so they would have been able to fit it on a Galley.

	21-02-2004 02:45									#67
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Yeah the main thing is that we will replay from the point where CGN began planning their defences based on unit teleporting and not how many units or which units GCA disbands.
At this point GWT would actually prefer to simply play on from where we are! which would be quite bad for us and CGN

	21-02-2004 03:07									#68
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But if that's what they want to do, I don't see how we can argue against it. Wasn't that our original stance? ***-for-tat, now it's done. Proceed from here with no more teleporting.

Now we've decided that it's more advantageous to turn back time, so we're changing our tune? Hmm.

-Arrian

	21-02-2004 03:44									#69
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Well, tit-for-tat was never my view of why we were doing it, I can't speak for anyone else.

	21-02-2004 03:47									#70
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Well yes, although I'd like to think thats not the best way of looking at it.
Things have changed since the original stance was made, our stance in some ways becoming more hardline on the teleport issue. GWT were prefering to replay before the issue of GCA disbanding units was raised.
However the impact of GCA's teleport has only just come into focus, it would be nice if CGN could also have a nation teleport a load of their units over to be upgraded and fight for them but that's not really going to happen.

I'm not saying CGN should get to have a redo because GCA teleported units over there. I'm saying GWT were in favour of the redo but decided it was not in their best interests only when the issue of GCA having to disband some of their teleported units was raised. Which is pretty much a separate issue now.

The fact is the GCA shouldn't have teleported their units over there and so some of their units should be disbanded anyway regardless of what happens with the redo.

Sorry if the above sounds like alot of tripe I usually don't post after drinking. Especially as I said in the other thread that we should do the redo mainly because everyone wanted to

GWT have actually been really cool about the whole thing though very willing to compromise and accomodating. Saying that that's probably because they've could have about a 100 more ansars lying around which would make all this pretty much irrelevant.

	21-02-2004 05:18									#71
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Trip --

Excellent work with Lucky.

One suggestion I have for determing which 50% are destroyed:

Give Apolyton the full list (Mongoose CC'd to verify) and allow us to split the units into two groups.

GCA would then pick which group survives.

It's a derivative of the age old solution to splitting things between two parties. We "cut". They "choose".

--Togas

	21-02-2004 05:32									#72
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quote: Originally posted by Trip Yeah yeah, BF, I know, you're distraught at me pawning away every last bit of our effort the past week. All is lost. It's horrible, I know. We were losing grip on GWT accepting the 390 AD replay. They began leaning towards continuing the game from where we were. Unless we came to an agreement soon, they would bail and we'd end up having to continue from where we were. The entire reason this has gone so well is because GWT has been responsive to this compromise.

Yeah Trip, I know, you're a jerk. We have to live with it, I know.

Are you so afraid to hold your ground that you'll crumble at any time the other team flinches? Have some backbone for crying outloud. Fight for what's right and not just for what the minimum GCA will give us.

Once it was declared, by all teams, that teleportating should be illegal, then we had the stronger position in which to argue from. You act as if we have no ground to stand on and we better take what was offered and run.

I was handling the negotiations just fine then you felt the need to push me aside. Yes, you pushed me aside. You assumed it was your role and duty to negotiate with Lucky/GCA about this. It was me who started it and now it's you whose settling for less than what I think we deserve and what GCA would give.

Trip is everything on this team. He does it all! All bow before the mighty Trip.

	21-02-2004 05:35									#73
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quote: Originally posted by BigFree Yeah Trip, I know, you're a jerk. We have to live with it, I know. Are you so afraid to hold your ground that you'll crumble at any time the other team flinches? Have some backbone for crying outloud. Fight for what's right and not just for what the minimum GCA will give us. Once it was declared, by all teams, that teleportating should be illegal, then we had the stronger position in which to argue from. You act as if we have no ground to stand on and we better take what was offered and run. I was handling the negotiations just fine then you felt the need to push me aside. Yes, you pushed me aside. You assumed it was your role and duty to negotiate with Lucky/GCA about this. It was me who started it and now it's you whose settling for less than what I think we deserve and what GCA would give. Trip is everything on this team. He does it all! All bow before the mighty Trip.

I find it funny that so far you're the only one who has posted saying that this final agreement is so bad. Other people have suggestions, but they're not acting like it's the end of the world.

Oh, and if you don't like how things are being done, then run for consul again.

	21-02-2004 05:40									#74
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quote: Originally posted by Trip I find it funny that so far you're the only one who has posted saying that this final agreement is so bad. Other people have suggestions, but they're not acting like it's the end of the world. Oh, and if you don't like how things are being done, then run for consul again.

Oh, I said it was so bad?

:hmm:

I think I said we deserved more and could have got more if it weren't for your jellyfish like attitude.

Is the settlement disgraceful? No. Could we have got more? Yes.

But, we'll never know since you had to jump in and take over.

	21-02-2004 05:48									#75
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quote: Originally posted by BigFree Oh, I said it was so bad? :hmm: I think I said we deserved more and could have got more if it weren't for your jellyfish like attitude. Is the settlement disgraceful? No. Could we have got more? Yes. But, we'll never know since you had to jump in and take over.

Your attitude clearly shows how upset you are with how things were concluded.

Don't forget you're not an official, so you weren't doing anything that had a real impact. Right? Unless you're willing to admit that acting an in an unofficial manner actually can change things either for good or for bad for this team...

	21-02-2004 05:52									#76
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I'm tired of arguing with you about this.

We'll let the team decide.

* BigFree makes a note to others that Trip argued with him and actually threatened to ban him, in chat, from the team for said comments. He also notes that Trip may have just got to big for his britches!

	21-02-2004 05:54									#77
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I threatened to bring the issue up if you continued doing what you've been doing.

I'm not the only one who has ever been upset with your conduct BF, don't you forget that.

	21-02-2004 07:46									#78
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Trip and BF
Sitting in a tree
K I S S
I N G....

	21-02-2004 10:00									#79
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quote: Originally posted by Beta Trip and BF Sitting in a tree K I S S I N G....

First comes chat

Then comes a spat

Then comes a win in the ISDG!

BF and Trip (And I dont give a rats arse if you are a consel)

Both go to the corner for a while until you both cool off.

You both did a great job for Petes sake!

BF the hard line which gave us a great position to negotiate from, and Trip for getting us a solid agreement that goes a long way towards making things right in this game.

Yes thats right guys a game.

Lets remeber that OK

	21-02-2004 18:39									#80
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I think its an excellent deal and holding out for more would just be greedy. I mean by all rights GCA *should* be *dead*, but with this solution we get their land, they lose 50% of their units (that they had at the time), they lose all units near our continent, we gain peace, and we only had to actually fight a very few of their units in doing so.

Personally I'd of rather fought them to the bitter end, but in terms of being good for us....I don't think things would have come out better if they had fought us.

	21-02-2004 19:24									#81
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Diplomacy is the Art of comprimise.

Enough said.