27-02-2004 01:38									#271
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optimus, your argument reduces to a simple statement:

One cannot legislate in favor of traditional families as that would negatively impact children raised in alternative arrangements.

I think this is fundamental issue that has to be addressed because it is a central reason why current welfare policy is anti-family.

	27-02-2004 02:24									#272
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quote: BTW, I understand Kerry is against gay marriages, but voted against the DoMA. He is also in favor of the state's right to decide, but voted to strip them of this right by his vote against the DoMA.

He may be against something which he thinks is unconstitutional.

	27-02-2004 02:39									#273
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Nice avatar Che

	27-02-2004 02:41									#274
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon Nice avatar Che

I don't even have it up 30 seconds and peeps already commenting on it.

	27-02-2004 02:45									#275
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http://www.cnn.com/2004/SHOWBIZ/TV/...l.ap/index.html

oh yea.

	27-02-2004 07:56									#276
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So, Kerry comes out for a constitutional amendment today in favor of civil unions and against gay marriages and Rosie says she will vote for him and against Bush who said the same thing.

There is just a bit too much politics among gays that is so blatant as to be sickening.

	27-02-2004 08:11									#277
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When did Bush say he'd favor a constitutional ammendment designating civil unions for gays? He said absolutely no such thing. Strawman ho!

	27-02-2004 08:24									#278
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quote: Originally posted by Ned So, Kerry comes out for a constitutional amendment today in favor of civil unions and against gay marriages and Rosie says she will vote for him and against Bush who said the same thing.

You gotta source for that? I find it very disturbing. If it's true I'm gonna change my registration to Democrat so I can vote for Edwards in our upcoming primary.

quote: There is just a bit too much politics among gays that is so blatant as to be sickening.

Gays are supposed to be single issue people and not have other concerns?

	27-02-2004 08:27									#279
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quote: You gotta source for that? I find it very disturbing. If it's true I'm gonna change my registration to Democrat so I can vote for Edwards in our upcoming primary.

I think Ned is making something up. In the debates tonight Kerry said the decision should be left to the states and is against any amendment banning gay marriages.

	27-02-2004 08:29									#280
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I will vote against anyone supporting such an amendment, my other principles be damned.

	27-02-2004 08:30									#281
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I doubt any Democrat will be for such an amendment. All of them have railed against Bush for proposing it.

	27-02-2004 08:30									#282
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara I will vote against anyone supporting such an amendment, my other principles be damned.

Isn't that what you are doing by voting Pinko?

	27-02-2004 08:40									#283
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I saw it on the news today that he supports exactly what I said -- for the Mass. constitutional amendment.

Bush made it clear that he does not oppose civil unions and the author of the US constitutional amendment offered to change the language to make that abundantly clear.

The only candidate that is in favor of gay marriage is Nader.

	27-02-2004 08:42									#284
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If all you Pinkos were honest, you would vote for Nader.

	27-02-2004 08:51									#285
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quote: I saw it on the news today that he supports exactly what I said -- for the Mass. constitutional amendment.

Yes, the MASSACHUSETTS amendment! That aint' the same as Bush's federal Constitutional amendment, and is consistent with Kerry's plan that each state should decide for itself.

	27-02-2004 08:55									#286
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quote: Originally posted by Ned I saw it on the news today that he supports exactly what I said -- for the Mass. constitutional amendment.

That's not what you said at all, you liar. You were pretty clearly talking about the national ammendment, which is all Bush has been talking about, as well as Rosie.

quote: Bush made it clear that he does not oppose civil unions and the author of the US constitutional amendment offered to change the language to make that abundantly clear.

And this does not remotely equate to Bush supporting an ammendment to the constitution that favors civil unions, now does it?

See how the blatant smear attempt crumbles under basic analysis!

quote: The only candidate that is in favor of gay marriage is Nader.

Wrong, Kucinich and Sharpton do as well.

	27-02-2004 09:12									#287
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And this time it was easier to refute.

	27-02-2004 09:14									#288
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov That's not what you said at all, you liar. You were pretty clearly talking about the national ammendment, which is all Bush has been talking about, as well as Rosie.

The amendment Kerry supports is the kind of state amendment that Bush supports as well. It opposes gay marriage while authorizing civil unions. There is very little difference between the two on this issue.

Anyway Boris, I never specified which constitution to illustrate my point. Their positions are almost identical.

	27-02-2004 09:18									#289
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Shrub wants a national amendement.

Seeing as how the states that are getting gay marriage, or likely will in the near furture, are precisely those that won't easily pass state amendments, the positions are very different.

	27-02-2004 09:21									#290
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I don't recall Bush ever mentioning a state Constitutional Amendment... and why would he? He's the President of US. He makes decisions on Federal issues.

Which state would he be referring to? All of them?

	27-02-2004 09:27									#291
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Ned's just trying to weasel his way out of making a blatantly false statement based on his half-hearing something and going off the deep end about it. Par for the course.

	27-02-2004 09:41									#292
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Rosie pointed out something I hadn't thought about wrt gay marriage benefits, and one that isn't addressed by contractual means is spousal priviledge. Despite her considering her partner her wife, Rosie was denied spousal priviledge at the trial. Is it fair that a heterosexual married coupld can claim such priviledge, but a homosexual couple may be forced to testify against one another in the same circumstances?

	27-02-2004 10:15									#293
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quote: Is it fair that a heterosexual married coupld can claim such priviledge,

Wait till you have a custody battle, discrimination is ripe it's called population control...

A form of social engineering we pee on's better wise up too...

	27-02-2004 10:16									#294
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quote: Ned's just trying to weasel his way out of making a blatantly false statement based on his half-hearing something and going off the deep end about it. Par for the course.

Indeed. Bush wants a federal constitutional amendment taking the decision away from the states. Kerry's amendment (repulsive as it is) is consistent with statements that the states should be able to decide for themselves.

	27-02-2004 10:22									#295
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wow, yavoon vs thorn... that was funny

Imran, what's your take on my suggestion that the proposed amendment violates the 14th and 1st amendments?

	27-02-2004 10:26									#296
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That's impossible. An amendment by definition cannot violate the Constitution.

	27-02-2004 10:27									#297
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo That's impossible. An amendment by definition cannot violate the Constitution.

uhmmm... well then they would be contradictory...

	27-02-2004 10:28									#298
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btw, I didn't say the "constitution"... but rather two specific amendments... for instance, what if they passed an amendment creating the Church of America or something... that would violate the 1st amendment.

	27-02-2004 10:30									#299
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quote: Imran, what's your take on my suggestion that the proposed amendment violates the 14th and 1st amendments?

Didn't I already said that was a dumb argument? Since it is a Constitutional Amendment which comes later, it superceeds the 1st and 14th Amendment and cannot be ruled unconstitution under any grounds. Even if you follow Templar's argument, this amendment, once passed is unassailable, except by another amendment.

	27-02-2004 10:32									#300
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Didn't I already said that was a dumb argument?

probably, but after my last post way back on like page 2, I haven't read anything since this last page (50 posts per page).

quote: Since it is a Constitutional Amendment which comes later, it superceeds the 1st and 14th Amendment and cannot be ruled unconstitution under any grounds. Even if you follow Templar's argument, this amendment, once passed is unassailable, except by another amendment.

that doesn't make sense... so amendments can contradict each other as long as they are in succession?