24-02-2004 22:49									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Gibsie It should be noted that if someone says, "I hate f*cking Bush", they're not saying that they themselves are gay, but actually that they hate the President.

****ing, at least in my case, is being used as an adjective or adverb (I can't remember which, maybe JohnT GRAMMAR NAZI can correct me), NOT a verb

	24-02-2004 22:52									#32
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neither am i.
VVVVVVVVVVV

	24-02-2004 22:53									#33
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** note Ming... I am not evading swear filter

** runs away

	24-02-2004 23:01									#34
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara IIRC, potassium is ixnay' snugglebunny. He probably just grabbed the pc and started browsing before noticing that she was the last one to use the pc.

Yep.
According to the Pics of Potassium I´ve seen,
he must be a very lucky guy

	24-02-2004 23:08									#35
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Uber, fast on the edit there aren't you?

	24-02-2004 23:50									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Gibsie It should be noted that if someone says, "I hate f*cking Bush", they're not saying that they themselves are gay,

It's more fun to read it that way though. I usually have to stiffle asking them thier opinion on Dick.

	24-02-2004 23:52									#37
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you are such a cheney

	25-02-2004 00:22									#38
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He may be throwing the fundies a bone, but it sure makes it harder for his more moderate supporters, (like me) to continue to vote for him.

Would have it been so hard to just say that you don't agree but it's up to the courts to decide?

	25-02-2004 00:29									#39
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Ming once said you guys were using the religous right. I think its rather obvious they are using you. It's not just in this case, either.

	25-02-2004 00:30									#40
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quote: Feb. 24, 2004 | George Bush's proposed 2005 budget cuts funding for veterans' healthcare and public housing. It freezes funding for after-school programs and Temporary Assistance for Needy Families grants. It provides less than one-sixth of the increase needed to close the budget shortfall in the AIDS Drug Assistance Program, which helps low-income HIV patients access medical care and lifesaving drugs. It cuts state Medicaid funding by $1.5 billion. Yet when it comes to abstinence education, money seems to be no object. Bush's budget recommends $270 million for programs that try to dissuade teenagers from having sex, double the amount spent last year. Much of that money would be given in grants to Christian organizations such as Youth for Christ and to anti-abortion groups operating so-called crisis pregnancy centers, outfits that masquerade as women's health clinics but deliver a strongly anti-abortion message and often medically inaccurate information. It would pay for school programs that teach kids that premarital sex leads to psychological maladies and that sex with condoms is a kind of viral Russian roulette.

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2...ence/index.html

You'll have to go through an advert if you want to read it.

edit: found someting interesting near end of article:

quote: None of the 2003 grants went to Jewish or Muslim groups.

	25-02-2004 00:37									#41
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quote: * Potassium awaits ben kenobi to come in this thread and parrot his "LOL GAYS CAN MARRY! THEY JUST HAVE TO MARRY THE OTHER SEX" argument AGAIN

Why should I disappoint my DL fans?



Gays can marry. They just have to marry someone of the opposite sex.

As for this constitutional amendment, nice to see Bush finally standing up for what he believes in.

I challenge that poll of 58% against a ban, I would think it to be closer to 48% than 58%.

There is support for a constitutional amendment, and people like the mayor of San Francisco encourage those folks to get active who otherwise would not.

So a big to Bush.

	25-02-2004 00:40									#42
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quote: The point is he won't get anything else other than his base, which consists of Christian fundamentalists.

They have consistently voted for him, and will continue to do so in the future.

	25-02-2004 00:43									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi Why should I disappoint my DL fans?

You suck, with teeth.

	25-02-2004 00:43									#44
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quote: Would have it been so hard to just say that you don't agree but it's up to the courts to decide?

I would disagree that the courts should decide, it ought to be up to the legislature. Let the people have a say on the issue.

Why is that such an offensive position?

	25-02-2004 00:44									#45
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quote: You suck, with teeth.

OMG!!!!!111!!!1!

PWNED!!!1!!1!

	25-02-2004 00:46									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi Why is that such an offensive position?

Because minority rights should not be left up to the majority. Typically, they have not be overly supportive.

	25-02-2004 00:48									#47
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quote: and to anti-abortion groups operating so-called crisis pregnancy centers, outfits that masquerade as women's health clinics but deliver a strongly anti-abortion message and often medically inaccurate information.

Let's sift out the jargon.

anit-abortion = prolife

so-called crisis pregnancy centres = crisis pregnancy centres.

masquerade as womens health centres = provides options for pregnant women other than abortion.

often medically inaccurate = refuse to send women to abortion clinics.

So there is no bias in that source. None at all.

	25-02-2004 00:48									#48
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Because minority rights should not be left up to the majority. Typically, they have not be overly supportive.

Exactly,

God, I'm agreeing with a commie.

	25-02-2004 00:49									#49
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Ming once said you guys were using the religous right. I think its rather obvious they are using you. It's not just in this case, either.

I agree with che's assessment.

quote: I would disagree that the courts should decide, it ought to be up to the legislature. Let the people have a say on the issue. Why is that such an offensive position?

because that's not how the US federal government is organized... the legislature makes the laws, the courts decide if they are constitutional or not. The seperation of power prevents tyranny by majority in this way. Like I said before, I could give two shits if the majority of the people think gay marriage should be banned because it is unconstitutional. (see 14th Amendment)

quote: Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

banning gays from receiving the legal benefits of marriage is against the 14th amendment... sorry BK, you can't discriminate against gays in America. Maybe you should move to Saudi Arabia where they impale gays on spears.

	25-02-2004 00:49									#50
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quote: Because minority rights should not be left up to the majority

Is there a right to marry whomever you want just because you love them, che? Is it in the constitution, that the state cannot restrict marriage?

	25-02-2004 00:51									#51
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in addition to my above post, President Bush has shown a complete lack of respect for the federal government and the seperation of powers. He has no respect for the judicial process at all. It's an insult to the entire judicial system when he paints these judges as "activists". Unlike Bush, these judges have spent a good part of their lives studying the laws. And Unlike Bush, they respect the laws and the spirit in which they were written.

	25-02-2004 00:52									#52
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quote: (see 14th Amendment)

I see nothing in there applying to marriage.

quote: Maybe you should move to Saudi Arabia where they impale gays on spears.

	25-02-2004 00:53									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi Is there a right to marry whomever you want just because you love them, che? Is it in the constitution, that the state cannot restrict marriage?

I already answered this... the 14th amendment says people get equal protection under law. So yes, two gay people have the same right to the legal protections of marriage just as a black person has the right to vote.

	25-02-2004 00:55									#54
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quote: Unlike Bush, they respect the laws and the spirit in which they were written.

They are activist judges. Why fault the man for seeing clearly, just because you disagree with his assessment.

Secondly, I sincerely doubt the founders would have any doubt as to the legitimacy of the state in restricting marriage to one man and one woman.

Discrimination is not always bad. There are plenty of areas where the state discriminates.

	25-02-2004 00:56									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi I see nothing in there applying to marriage.

you need to learn about implied powers


I made the crack about Saudi Arabia because it seems as if you (and the rest of the anti-gay people) wish to punish gays. Denying them equal protection under law, whether it's marriage, voting, driving a car, getting medical care, equal employment, etc... is a violation of the 14th Amendment.

The US constitution is a sacred document because of it's lack of specificity. We don't need an amendment for every little issue that creeps up.

Instead of amendment saying "gays can't be discriminated against" and "blacks can't be discriminated against"... we have an all purpose amendment saying "EQUAL PROTECTION UNDER LAW"

so BK, if you want to punish gays you should move to a country that does so.

	25-02-2004 00:59									#56
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi They are activist judges. Why fault the man for seeing clearly, just because you disagree with his assessment.

this is an absolute BAM... but I didn't expect anything else from you and your gay-hating crowd (including Bush).

okay, name the judges in question

detail their careers and show how they are activists...

This is complete and utter bullshit from the weak-minded gay haters (I can't even say right-wingers anymore because not even all of them hate gays the way you do).

The judges are correctly interpretting the law... they are doing their jobs.

	25-02-2004 01:00									#57
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quote: the 14th amendment says people get equal protection under law.

Same critique as earlier. Nothing in there on marraige.

Secondly, you still fall into the poor analogy to race. One cannot change ones race, while one can certainly change sexual preference.

quote: you need to learn about implied powers

Ah, to read in whatever you support. Yes, it is a wonderful tool of activist judges.

quote: EQUAL PROTECTION UNDER LAW"

Ah, so just saying those words over and over again rebuts my argument?

	25-02-2004 01:03									#58
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi Is there a right to marry whomever you want just because you love them, che? Is it in the constitution, that the state cannot restrict marriage?

Stop shifting. You asked why not allow the people a say. I told you why. As for what is in the constitution, the Constitutions at issue are state constitutions, and apparently, several of them do say you cannot keep gays from marying each other. So there!

	25-02-2004 01:04									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi one can certainly change sexual preference.

No they can't.

	25-02-2004 01:05									#60
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quote: Originally posted by rah He may be throwing the fundies a bone, but it sure makes it harder for his more moderate supporters, (like me) to continue to vote for him.

It's a painless bone to throw because he knows it would never get past the hurdles in place to prevent people from putting things into the Constitution everytime they felt like it. Moderates already knew about his feelings on the matter.