25-02-2004 02:34									#91
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo Gay marriage is illegal in every state but Massachussetts.

Gay marriage may not be illegal in New Mexico. Wheile there is a law that defines marriage as only between one man and one woman, there is a later law that forbids discrimination on the basis of gender. Thus, the earlier law is invalidated. We'll have to wait and see what happens there.

	25-02-2004 02:36									#92
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quote: Wheile there is a law that defines marriage as only between one man and one woman, there is a later law that forbids discrimination on the basis of gender. Thus, the earlier law is invalidated.

Maybe not. Many courts have said that banning gay marriage isn't discrimination on gender, but on sexual orientation. Because women and men who are gay are discriminated equally.

	25-02-2004 02:36									#93
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo Most civil union proposals (including the Vermont law) give the same rights of marriage to gay people.

Nope... since many rights of marriage are based on federal issues, such as federal taxation.

	25-02-2004 02:51									#95
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quote: Nope... since many rights of marriage are based on federal issues, such as federal taxation

True.

	25-02-2004 03:01									#96
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quote: What I wrote was that when it comes to protecting the rights of a minority, majorities shouldn't have a say.

So why then,

quote: it is not a stretch to imagine a minority of Americans foisting an amendment upon the majority who oppose such a thing.

So how am I putting words into your mouth?

Is this about minority rights, or isn't it?

	25-02-2004 03:13									#97
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Minorities shouldn't force our countries to accept anything.

	25-02-2004 03:18									#98
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quote: Originally posted by Gangerolf OK so it's not just semantics. Do some states allow gay civil unions but not gay marriages? Or would a civil union give the same rights as a marriage?

in terms of rights and legal protections, civil unions are the same as marriage... civil unions are mostly just a compromise presented to give gays their rights and not call it marriage.

But the gay-haters aren't concerned about compromise, equality, rights, justice, or tolerance. They want to punish gays. If there's a hell, the gay haters and bigots are all going to go there. These people are like terrorists, they hate gays more than they love God. Islamic terrorists hate America more than they love Allah. It's the same sickening mentality.

	25-02-2004 03:43									#99
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Ugh. I don't see what the problem with gay marriage is. No court is going to make your church pastor perform homosexual marriages -- that's the other side of the "seperation of church and state".

	25-02-2004 03:59									#100
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quote: Originally posted by rev Ugh. I don't see what the problem with gay marriage is. No court is going to make your church pastor perform homosexual marriages -- that's the other side of the "seperation of church and state".

that's a good point, I was thinking that banning gay marriage might be a violation of the 1st Amendment as well as the 14th...

quote: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion

The governments only involvement in marriage is the legal side of things... which the 14th Amendment takes care of... but marriage is basically a religious institution. I mean, weddings are primarily in churches, a priest usually performs the service. An amendment banning gay marriage would violate that part of the first amendment because the law is interfering with religious establishments.

	25-02-2004 04:04									#101
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This is going to be fun. A lot of annulled marriages in San Fran I reckon Let's see them cry.

	25-02-2004 04:10									#102
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don't worry Bodd's social change (progress) is inevitable... plus, that bird ain't gonna fly

	25-02-2004 04:16									#103
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi Why should I disappoint my DL fans?

That's funny. The last time I checked, Ixnay and I were two different people.

Oh noes! He forgot to log out of my account! LOL DL LET'S DANCE HURR

	25-02-2004 04:28									#104
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quote: Originally posted by Park Avenue This is going to be fun. A lot of annulled marriages in San Fran I reckon Let's see them cry.

You're all heart, widdle Boddy-Woddy.

	25-02-2004 04:30									#105
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quote: Originally posted by Potassium LOL DL LET'S DANCE HURR

Beat you to it!

	25-02-2004 04:34									#106
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are the ppl for gay marriage also for all the other things like polygamy and relatives marrying?

somehow I think this is gna get flamed....

	25-02-2004 04:40									#107
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yavoon: I'm not for either... we outlaw weddings for direct relatives... well, it's pretty obvious why. I'm against polygamy, well, I'm not THAT much against it... gay marriage is about the discrimination against sexual orientation... polygamy, well, that's really just about a dude wanting more wives.

that being said, they are different issues... it's a shame gay-haters want to equate them.

btw, on Lou Dobb's Moneyline (CNN), Noah Feldman (asst. prof. of law) just brought up the 1st Amendment issue regarding religion, marriage, and the government.

	25-02-2004 04:43									#108
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quote: Originally posted by Sava yavoon: I'm not for either... we outlaw weddings for direct relatives... well, it's pretty obvious why. I'm against polygamy, well, I'm not THAT much against it... gay marriage is about the discrimination against sexual orientation... polygamy, well, that's really just about a dude wanting more wives. that being said, they are different issues... it's a shame gay-haters want to equate them. btw, on Lou Dobb's Moneyline (CNN), Noah Feldman (asst. prof. of law) just brought up the 1st Amendment issue regarding religion, marriage, and the government.

well to me it depends on what u think constitutes marriage. obviously if u WANT to allow gay+straight 2 ppl non related marriages only, then I suppose its possible to fish around enough until u find something that fits that.

then again I've been hearing a lot of "if ppl are loving and commited to each other they should be allowed to marry." well I don't see how that rules ANYTHING out.

also if we're carping on how arbitrary "man+woman" is, I don't find "2" any less arbitrary.

	25-02-2004 04:43									#109
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You wanna know how I feel about this, I would kill people to gain my rights, but being that this wouldn't do anything but blow up in my face and not help things at all, I don't do such things.... but I kid you not, I am upset enough to partake in a revolution. I'm sick and tired of gays taking up the ass what heteros decide. We should FIGHT FIGHT!!! CIVIL DISOBENDIANCE IN THE LEAST!!!

	25-02-2004 04:45									#110
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It's somewhat frightening to me, when a president can even consider appealing/pandering to homophobia to INCREASE his popularity for reelection.

	25-02-2004 04:46									#111
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quote: then again I've been hearing a lot of "if ppl are loving and commited to each other they should be allowed to marry." well I don't see how that rules ANYTHING out.

I don't really care about the religious or social aspects of those topics... I care about the government's role in it. The government grants certain rights and privilages to heterosexual married couples. Those same rights and privilages should be granted to homosexual couples as well.

Personally, I'd like to see the government not meddle in the private social affairs of people...

so in savaland, the "institution of marriage" would strictly be a topic the churches, synagogues, and mosques deal with... not the government.

	25-02-2004 04:46									#112
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: Wheile there is a law that defines marriage as only between one man and one woman, there is a later law that forbids discrimination on the basis of gender. Thus, the earlier law is invalidated. Maybe not. Many courts have said that banning gay marriage isn't discrimination on gender, but on sexual orientation. Because women and men who are gay are discriminated equally.

After thinking some time about it I wouldn´t say that it is neither Discrimination against Gender nor sexual Orientation.

You can marry someone, regardless of wether you are male or female, as long as the other person is of the opposite sex.

But there is also no discrimination in sexual orientation.
Regardless of wether you are Homo or Heterosexual you are allowed to marry, as long as you marry a Person of the opposite Sex (and after all there is no law that says, that you have to feel love or sexual desire for your partner to marry him/her)

So I would call it rather some form of Discrimination against the "homosexual lifestyle", as homosexual lifestyle involves living together with a partner of the same sex.

	25-02-2004 04:48									#113
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quote: Originally posted by Sava I don't really care about the religious or social aspects of those topics... I care about the government's role in it. The government grants certain rights and privilages to heterosexual married couples. Those same rights and privilages should be granted to homosexual couples as well. Personally, I'd like to see the government not meddle in the private social affairs of people... so in savaland, the "institution of marriage" would strictly be a topic the churches, synagogues, and mosques deal with... not the government.

lil tangent. don't want to say dodge, but the thot crossed my mind. so all u get a smiley.

=D

	25-02-2004 04:51									#114
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sorry, I tried to answer your question

	25-02-2004 05:07									#115
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quote: After thinking some time about it I wouldn´t say that it is neither Discrimination against Gender nor sexual Orientation. You can marry someone, regardless of wether you are male or female, as long as the other person is of the opposite sex. But there is also no discrimination in sexual orientation. Regardless of wether you are Homo or Heterosexual you are allowed to marry, as long as you marry a Person of the opposite Sex (and after all there is no law that says, that you have to feel love or sexual desire for your partner to marry him/her) So I would call it rather some form of Discrimination against the "homosexual lifestyle", as homosexual lifestyle involves living together with a partner of the same sex.

It is not a friggen lifestyle, it is how we live. Unless you consider yourself a heterosexual lifestyle. Lifestyle implies that you CHOOSE for this happen, it is more like homosexual CIRCUMSTANCES, not lifestyle.

What kind of a moron marries someone that they don't love or aren't attracted to, and don't even want to be around, does that make and &(#$(*&$# sense!!??!

If you do it is usually fraud to try and fool the INS.

	25-02-2004 05:08									#116
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quote: Originally posted by Thorn It is not a friggen lifestyle, it is how we live.

someone has to pickup this quote

	25-02-2004 05:32									#117
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quote: Originally posted by rah He may be throwing the fundies a bone, but it sure makes it harder for his more moderate supporters, (like me) to continue to vote for him. Would have it been so hard to just say that you don't agree but it's up to the courts to decide?

Is not characteristic of George Bush to equivocate. He always takes a simple and clear position. Contrast that with the position of John Kerry who seems to be on both sides of every issue, both against gay marriage and against any effective remedy.

	25-02-2004 05:37									#118
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Bush made a mistake. But lets not forget that John Kerry is also against gay marriage.

	25-02-2004 05:43									#119
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quote: An amendment banning gay marriage would violate that part of the first amendment because the law is interfering with religious establishments.

Um Sava (again)... AN AMENDMENT CAN'T BE UNCONSTITUTIONAL!

It doesn't matter if it conflicts. Since it is later in time, it alters prior amendments.

quote: It is not a friggen lifestyle, it is how we live.

	25-02-2004 05:46									#120
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Actually this amendment is unconstitutional. And being gay is no more of a lifestyle than heterosexuality.