25-02-2004 20:23									#61
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Yep.. "the historical violence" is acceptable is revisionist, because Christian groups have criticized historical violence in movies just as much as current violence.

Whats the difference? Justification for the violence? Well... thats obviously in the eye of the beholder.

I'd say that the obvious reason for acceptability for this movies violence is purely that it suits their purposes this time.

If you showed explicit, brutal, prolonged and gory violence of, say... the Crusades, I wonder how Christians would view that...

	25-02-2004 20:41									#62
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You have to remember that it is a Passion film, which is a very specific entity. The point is to emphasize the suffering of Christ. It is not meant to be the total story of Jesus. It that context the gore and limited scope is appropriate.

As far as ratings go remember:

a) it is on a controversial topic, so it is going to disagree with alot of people.

b) It is a downer, and is supposed to make you ashamed of the sins of man. It isn't a feel good movie, so don't expect alot of happy viewers.

c) it is written from a strict Catholic point of view, the majority of the viewers are not Catholic, let alone strict Mel type Catholics.

d) It recieved so much undue hype that people are expecting something that doesn't exist. Just like SW prequels fell short.

e)Since it does not cover most of Jesus's life in its entirety, and Passion stories are from a time when everyone studdied the Bible at nauseum, some people will miss the nuances.

	25-02-2004 21:01									#63
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There is gore... and there is Gore.

The film doesn't portray regular suffering... it portrays some warped form of extended torture... where the person is killed many times over before you even get to the cross.

Its not watching jc, its watching Kenny from South Park, or Wyle E. Coyote.

In many ways, its the definition of violence without reaction... that is realistic violence without realistic reaction.

How does that benefit or educate anyone?

	25-02-2004 21:15									#64
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quote: Originally posted by Shi Huangdi I like how it's been judged by so many who have yet to see it. I think some people are going by ideology more then review of a movie.

Don't like it when the shoe's on the other foot, eh?

Christian groups have seen fit to lambast movies, plays and books that they don't think fit their ideology without ever having actually seen them or understood the context. They even picket things without having seen them.

	25-02-2004 21:53									#65
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quote: "The Butcher Boy"

...is a complete, predictable ripoff from "American Psycho", except it maybe contains even less psychological hooks than the original. Critics seem to like The Butcher Boy though, probably because the boy in there is ~15 years younger than the guy in the other one, thus they don't feel empathy towards him as much as towards the boy.

	25-02-2004 22:03									#66
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Always look on the bright side of death.

	25-02-2004 22:10									#67
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quote: Originally posted by VJ ...is a complete, predictable ripoff from "American Psycho", except it maybe contains even less psychological hooks than the original. Critics seem to like The Butcher Boy though, probably because the boy in there is ~15 years younger than the guy in the other one, thus they don't feel empathy towards him as much as towards the boy.

Bah... they are completely different.

American Psycho didn't try to explain or excuse the character, which I completely respected. Its was largely a social comment on the 80's.

The Butcher Boy had an implicit explanation and excuse... the boy was driven to this by perhaps his family and perhaps the church. It included a subtext of commentary on Ireland... but that wasn't the point of the film... it was incidental... not intentional as in American Psycho.

I think you'd agree post-war Ireland and Manhattan in the 1980's are quite different animals.

	25-02-2004 22:21									#68
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quote: Originally posted by MrBaggins There is gore... and there is Gore. doesn't portray regular suffering... it portrays some warped form of extended torture...

My feelings on Gore as well. Thankfully he didn't win.

Now all we have to deal with is regular suffering.

	25-02-2004 22:24									#69
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I think I will wait until I have seen the movie before expressing my opinions.

	25-02-2004 22:38									#70
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quote: Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe My feelings on Gore as well. Thankfully he didn't win. Now all we have to deal with is regular suffering.

Oh.. if only that were true. Shrub and his cohorts are obviously the worst plague imaginable.

	25-02-2004 22:43									#71
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Mel messed up on who killed JC. It was the Romans executing a rebel. Says so in the Bibble. And anyway, isn't the point of the whole Son-Of-God thing that JC was supposed to die anyway?[deepvoice] FOR ALL MEN'S SINS[/deepvoice]

Are Joe Pesci and Danny Glover in it?

	25-02-2004 22:53									#72
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DL

	25-02-2004 23:56									#73
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon I can't wait for [voiceover]Two thousand years ago, they took everything he had... Now he's back, and he's fighting for justice the only way he knows how... This time it's personal... this time he will win... and this summer he's coming to a cinema near you - and let me tell you buddy, he ain't takin' no loincloth jokes from no pinko-atheist punks.

Something is rotten in the State of Galilee and Jesus is taking out the trash!

	25-02-2004 23:59									#74
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The REAL Hebrew Hammer

	26-02-2004 01:15									#75
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I just saw the movie yesterday, and I have to say that the movie was very well done.

It's true, it's not the story of Jesus, it's the story of why Jesus died for us, why he was willing to go through all that pain. It's a very powerful and moving picture; most of you would cry at least once, no matter what you believe in, I can guarantee that.

All in all, great movie, great acting and of course, one of the most emotional movies I have ever watched.

I suggest you go watch it before you judge it (then you would make sense )

	26-02-2004 01:20									#76
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Oh and I just wanted to say that I think the movie should remain R16, there is no need for children to see it straight away, they can wait until they are older.

I never did like the way christians push their belief onto others.

	26-02-2004 02:13									#77
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Don't like it when the shoe's on the other foot, eh? Christian groups have seen fit to lambast movies, plays and books that they don't think fit their ideology without ever having actually seen them or understood the context. They even picket things without having seen them.

When have I done any of those things? Or, for that matter, has my Church(RCC) ever ordered something picketed without people having seen it?

And moreover, even if I myself picketed a movie without having seen it, how would that affect whether it is right or not to prejudge this movie?

	26-02-2004 03:50									#78
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Australia's leading film critics, Margerat Pomeranz and David Stratton on SBS TV, gave it a very poor review. Only one star out of 5.

	26-02-2004 04:01									#79
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The death toll so far is only one dead. Lady died of a heart attack while watching. Wonder if she will show back up in 3 days.

	26-02-2004 04:15									#81
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@ JT

	26-02-2004 04:21									#82
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Anyways, I knew it was going to be a bad film when I heard the Pope liked it.

	26-02-2004 05:30									#83
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AH you haven't seen it yet, so how do you "know"?

And since when have people started listening to reviewers and critics?

It's not your typical movie, it has a totally different style, and one that is neccessary in order to achieve what Gibson was trying to achieve. Reviewers and critics are always so narrow minded.

	26-02-2004 05:43									#84
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quote: And since when have people started listening to reviewers and critics?

Since always... why do you think they have jobs?

	26-02-2004 07:52									#85
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Wow, some lady died of a heart attack watching this movie in a theatre mere blocks from my house!

http://www.kansas.com/mld/kansas/8039749.htm

	26-02-2004 08:14									#86
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quote: Originally posted by MrBaggins There seems to be some hypocracy here: Christian groups, for years and years have been criticizing violence in movies... but they're just gushing over this one.

There's another hipocrisy i like better. You know how they're always saying how they don't need to see a movie to know it's bad? Well, this time they're responding to criticism with "Don't knock it until you've seen it".

	26-02-2004 08:21									#87
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quote: Originally posted by Sn00py AH you haven't seen it yet, so how do you "know"? And since when have people started listening to reviewers and critics? It's not your typical movie, it has a totally different style, and one that is neccessary in order to achieve what Gibson was trying to achieve. Reviewers and critics are always so narrow minded.

Narrow minded v. 1. Someone who holds an alternative opinion and refuses to see it your way. Lung's Interpreting Dictionary

What was Gibson trying to achieve? That we would all learn Aramaic as the only way to appreciate god?

	26-02-2004 08:25									#88
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quote: Originally posted by Sn00py AH you haven't seen it yet, so how do you "know"?

I know because its full of graphic violence and I don't like that kind of film.

quote: And since when have people started listening to reviewers and critics?

If people started listening to critics maybe the video and DVD stores wouldn't be filled with so much absolute garbage which is an insult to your intelligence.

	26-02-2004 08:32									#89
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quote: Originally posted by MrBaggins If you showed explicit, brutal, prolonged and gory violence of, say... the Crusades, I wonder how Christians would view that...

It depends how one-sided you would have it

	26-02-2004 08:56									#90
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quote: Originally posted by monkspider Wow, some lady died of a heart attack watching this movie in a theatre mere blocks from my house! http://www.kansas.com/mld/kansas/8039749.htm

My aunt died from the movie ALIEN, but no one complained then.

I saw the movie, I thought it was better then the other movies of this type. The scary part was that I was able to understand what the Romans were saying without reading the subtitles!

I'm still trying to figure out what the child Satan was holding was suppose to represent, perhaps anyone here (that's a longshot), could enlighten me? That was the only thing that left me confused.