26-02-2004 01:04									#31
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Sure, but only mine is correct.

	26-02-2004 01:05									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Adam Smith We need to do this NOW. The longer you wait the harder it is to fix a long-term problem like this.

Sadly, this isn't going to happen. The Republicans are too greedy to do it, and the Dems to cowardly to do it.

	26-02-2004 01:06									#33
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Actually I agree that there should be some method of defining need. Watching my father-in-law and his wife drawing SSR while maintaining a rather large house in New Hampshire and a three month time share in Hawaii is rather sickening.

However, that should be offset by some sort of reward/penalty system based on how much an individual is saving toward retirement during their wage-earning years. If you're making less than $87,000 and you are not saving, you pay more SS taxes. If you are making more than $87,000, everything above $87k is taxed at 7.65% and you're never going to see a dime of it. How's that for encouraging lower income workers to save while redistributing the wealth of higher income workers?

	26-02-2004 01:10									#34
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The $87K figure is indexed at the same inflation rate as the benefits.

	26-02-2004 01:12									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Sava remove income cap on the amount taxed... currently, the highest amount people are taxed on SS is $87,000 or so... that means... someone making $10,000,000 gets taxed as if they made $87,000. That is terribly regressive and not fair.

But there is a maximum to what anybody can get back... so that's why there is a ceiling. What's not fair is asking for even more money from some people only to give them the same amount as people paying in less.

	26-02-2004 01:15									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Ming But there is a maximum to what anybody can get back... so that's why there is a ceiling. What's not fair is asking for even more money from some people only to give them the same amount as people paying in less.

But that is a fundamental misunderstanding of the purpose of social security. It is not a retirement program or a savings program. It is a charitable program to make sure the elderly don't live too far below the poverty line. Once the electorate understands that, I think reformss will be much easier to undertake.

	26-02-2004 01:21									#37
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quote: Originally posted by pchang But that is a fundamental misunderstanding of the purpose of social security. It is not a retirement program or a savings program. It is a charitable program to make sure the elderly don't live too far below the poverty line. Once the electorate understands that, I think reformss will be much easier to undertake.

I understand that... and i'm willing to pay my fair share. I also am not counting on being able to live off of what I get back from social security. However, I'm glad there is a limit, because I already contribute a large amount of money into the system... and I need to put some money safely away for my own retirement

	26-02-2004 01:25									#38
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So, what is your opinion of the fact that Medicare does not have an income limit?

	26-02-2004 02:59									#39
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Well since my medicare deductions are less than 25% of my SS deduction, it's really not as big of a deal.

	26-02-2004 03:09									#40
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Franklin D. Roosevelt intended S.S. to be a temporary program. Let's make his wish come true and start phasing it out.

	26-02-2004 03:17									#41
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Just as soon as we start phasing out old people.


Hmmm, wait, I'm an old person.

	26-02-2004 03:23									#42
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rah, your light is flashing.

	26-02-2004 03:28									#43
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What is this? Some sort of shift change?

	26-02-2004 03:30									#44
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quote: Originally posted by pchang What is this? Some sort of shift change?

	26-02-2004 03:32									#45
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Social Security is an anti-poverty program. That's its purpose. Those who aren't in poverty do not need it. And Floyd is slightly correct. I don't buy libertarian morality. It's evil.

yet we are all forced to pay into it.

	26-02-2004 03:33									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Whoha yet we are all forced to pay into it.

I don't get your reasoning. Are yousaying that only poor people should pay into anti-poverty programs?

	26-02-2004 03:34									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Whoha yet we are all forced to pay into it.

Not all of us. People on unemployment and welfare don't have to pay it.

	26-02-2004 03:34									#48
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the solution is to call it a welfare program, kick off everyone that is solvent(they still have to pay for it though), and either remove the cap or raise other taxes.

Or cut spending.

	26-02-2004 03:41									#49
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quote: Originally posted by pchang I don't get your reasoning. Are yousaying that only poor people should pay into anti-poverty programs?

then call it welfare, not "social security".

	26-02-2004 03:48									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Whoha then call it welfare, not "social security".

They called it social security in the first place to get it to pass.

	26-02-2004 04:36									#51
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--"Wraith siting!!!!"

I'm around. Just read the anime threads.

--"There are lots of things they can do to save SS, but cutting benefits across the board for future retirees is NOT one of them."

No. It's a Ponzi scheme. They always fall apart, and there's nothing that can be done to stop it. It's just how the numbers work out.

Wraith
"What is the difference between a taxidermist and a tax collector? The taxidermist takes only your skin."
-- Mark Twain

	26-02-2004 05:23									#52
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yes, finally progress towards freedom. i dont mind if theres a Social security fund, as long as i can opt out of it.

	26-02-2004 05:28									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Wraith No. It's a Ponzi scheme. They always fall apart, and there's nothing that can be done to stop it. It's just how the numbers work out.

I know that's a staple of libertarian philosphy, but it's also incorrect, like so many other aspects of that "philosophy."

	26-02-2004 05:29									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia i dont mind if theres a Social security fund, as long as i can opt out of it.

You shouldn't be allowed to opt out any more than you can opt out of any other tax,

	26-02-2004 05:35									#55
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Greenspan -

	26-02-2004 05:48									#56
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quote: You shouldn't be allowed to opt out any more than you can opt out of any other tax,

fine. in that case, it should be elimintated. haha.

	26-02-2004 05:55									#57
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What about they cut military spendings first, and then cease any military help program to non-democratic governments?

When that's done, they cut on SS if they still need to.

	26-02-2004 06:11									#58
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quote: Originally posted by Oncle Boris What about they cut military spendings first, and then cease any military help program to non-democratic governments? When that's done, they cut on SS if they still need to.

Hmm. Cut the military to the bone? No thanks, I don't speak Chinese.

	26-02-2004 07:07									#59
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we'll you're gonna

but please, we have nukes. if it ever came down to us losing, we'd launch them all and you know it. we can cut a lot of out military spending.

	26-02-2004 09:51									#60
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quote: But there is a maximum to what anybody can get back... so that's why there is a ceiling. What's not fair is asking for even more money from some people only to give them the same amount as people paying in less.

Adam Smith:

What would happen if you lowered the payouts, to what would be needed for a person to live comfortably on their income in their retirement, but no more?

Put a cap on the other end, so that those who want to get more benefits, can enter a private program. Would this work?