02-04-2004 16:19									#271
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I shall write a code for my modules then to check every time you attack if the off-hand is being used. If so it will disable Finesse, and if not, it will add +50% to the STR bonus of the user. Should be quite easy, although it will have to be done via workaround, as you can't "turn off" a feat.

What I can do is look to see if the char has finesse, compare DEX with the STR score, and give a penalty to hit depending on the difference. (Simulating them using STR instead of DEX)

As for the extra STR when using a medium sized weapon with both hands, the game does this automatically with Halflings and Gnomes. They use a Longsword with both hands, for example, and get x1.5 STR bonus when doing so. I just need to fool the engine that the character is a Halfling when using a single handed weapon with the other hand free.

-Jam

	02-04-2004 16:21									#272
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Ok nice discussion guys. When I get back to it this evening I think I'll start it with a rogue, and add either fighter or ranger later. No one said which skills to go for though.

	02-04-2004 16:44									#273
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If you're going to build a meleer, don't add to many rogue levels, as you will get measly hitpoints when leveling up as rogue, and it will spoil your base attack bonus. If you get the rogue levels only for locks and traps, add 3 levels at level 1, 4 and 9. In all three cases max the possible points for open lock, search and disable traps, as the other skills you can get as ranger too. See that you get the three skills to the maximum in level 9 (12 points), that should be enough.

Open locks is DEX based, so if you get a decent DEX (like 20/+5) it is added and you can open DC 37 locks without tools. For higher locks (which are pretty rare btw) take lockpicks, which you'll find plentyful.

Search and disable traps both is INT based, and your INT won't be very good (only 10/0 or at most 12/+1), so the maximum traps you'll be able to disarm are DC 32 or 33. But most ground traps are at most DC 30, so it's enough. Door and chest traps can go over DC 40, but those you can easily open/disable using arrows with elemental damage, which you also will find plentyful. Additionally, you'll find some items like rings and helmets increasing INT, which can help as temporary buff.

EDIT: Some explanation for the three recommended rogue levels:

Level 1: Obviously, for the lot of skill points.
Level 4: Comes around the time you face the first fireballs, and the rogue gets the Evasion feat for free at 2nd level, which is very helpful against elemental attacks.
Level 9: As late as possible but not too late, to get more skill points for locks/traps.

Btw: 2D6 as sneak attack bonus is enough for a meleer.

Last edited by Sir Ralph on 02-04-2004 at 16:51

	02-04-2004 16:48									#274
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Nice. I see the point about Rogue and Fighter not gelling. In my prelude game I didn't have a high dexterity on my fighter. I went for strength and constitution mostly.

	02-04-2004 17:03									#275
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You can build a "thuggish" rogue+fighter, but then just forget about DEX based skills.

For more rogue info I recommend you to study this document, which is excellent!

	02-04-2004 17:12									#276
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I'd reccommend 5 levels of Rogue, stuff the HP and BaB, get another 1d6 sneak damage and be able to dismantle and recover some traps to set yourself later. I also reccomend exactly 14 INT, not the pathetic 10 or 12 suggested by Ralph. Then you can get +2 Skill Points per level (boost Tumble too, every 5 ranks = +1AC) and you can also choose some feats required to become a Weaponsmaster. I've completed the whole lot with a CON of 8, and a bunch of Rogue levels and I had no problems with low HPs.

-Jam

	02-04-2004 17:15									#277
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That's close to my arcane archer, who was a rogue(5)/bard(6)/aa(4) when I abandonned him in chapter 3 (too strong, not fun). 3D6 sneak attack and a pretty powerful bardic song, ouch! Plus 3 fireball arrows per day.

	02-04-2004 17:17									#278
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By the way, tumble is pretty much useless if you have Uncanny dodge.

	02-04-2004 17:19									#279
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Btw that link doesn't work, though I'll probably look at the gamefaqs site later.

	02-04-2004 17:21									#280
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Works fine for me.

http://db.gamefaqs.com/computer/doswin/file/neverwinter_nights_rogue.txt

	02-04-2004 20:44									#281
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Damn you guys!!, Now you have me wanting to play the OC with a fighter/Rogue combo The question is whether I want to throw in a level of shadowdancer, or else some weapon master.

I would have loved it if my current uber character had been able to dual yield.

Last night I went through a short module that is designed for an evil character that had finished HotU, by betraying the Seer. It was called "The God's Themseleves" and was an interesting concept, but far too short, one major battle and it was over.

...but my 14/14/1 Rogue/Assassin/Shadowdancer had a new personal high for sneak attack damage he smacked down a drow warrior for 145 hit points.

	02-04-2004 21:08									#282
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: By the way, tumble is pretty much useless if you have Uncanny dodge

You need 10(?) ranks of Tumble to select Uncanny Dodge, I thought.

Also (big good thing) every 5 ranks of Tumble gives you +1 AC. That adds up big time.

-Jam

	02-04-2004 21:19									#283
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You get uncanny dodge for free as rogue(3).

And your best armor is your DEX in any way. That's why I don't use studded leather. You can only get to 3(st.l. AC)+4(DEX)+Enhancement with it. You can get to 2(leather AC)+6(DEX)+Enhancement with leather, e.g. the Shadow leather armor, available in chapter 2, it's a leather+4 with +5 hide in shadows . You can get to 1(padded AC)+8(DEX)+Enhancement with padded armor.

My drow girl in HotU has 34 DEX at the moment and has the highest AC with no armor whatsoever (if I give her armor, her AC decreases).

	02-04-2004 21:50									#284
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Yes, but why not have tumble's AC bonus AND a high DEX AND a decent +5 AC monk's robes (from use magic device) to become unhittable?

-Jam

	02-04-2004 22:35									#285
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Because being invincable is such a killjoy. Most of my characters I abandonned, because killing hill giants with two blows and getting 4 XP for 'em doesn't feel right.

	02-04-2004 22:56									#286
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Did you ever play Icewind Dale 2? Its the same 3rd Edition rules and it was possible though items and cheezy multiclassing to get an AC of 78, meaning nothing in the whole game could hit you except on a natural 20

I like high AC very much.

-Jam

	03-04-2004 08:55									#287
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how woudl you get an AC of 78? I'm nearly in the DragonSun chapter and I only have ACs of 22 at the most with my level 10-11 characters...

	03-04-2004 12:39									#288
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I've gotten AC in the higher 50's I think in NWN HOTU. I could have gotten it higher, but I was saving my gold for true names.

I don't remember getting it that high in IWD2.

	03-04-2004 14:50									#289
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quote: how woudl you get an AC of 78?

Read this and weep.

http://forums.interplay.com/viewtopic.php?t=40021

Scroll down to "Ultimate AC" under the heading "Ultimate Powergaming"

-Jam

	13-04-2004 11:49									#290
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powergaming

Well I do create powerful characters mind you. I don't like struggling in a game. You won't find me creating half-orc wizards. And I do the research to ensure I meet qualifications for the prestige class I want. But other than that I don't plan my character. I just scroll through the available feats and pick one I like.

	13-04-2004 13:36									#291
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I expect that's how most people play, but I find it useful to have a quick check beforehand as to the most worthwhile skills and feats.

	13-04-2004 14:00									#292
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so many feats look kind of cool, but unless you are a fighter, there is just no room for them. I never choose any feats to raise specific saving throws (will, fortitude, reflex). There are just too many important feats.

I often play dwarves, so I have less feats to start with than human. And I'm rarely a fighter.

and some feats are utterly worthless.

There may be some useful, I just don't know about their usefulness. Maybe called shot. I've never had much luck with it. I've had more success with knockdown, but I'd rather take Cleave over knockdown.

	13-04-2004 14:04									#293
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I'm using (now improved) knockdown in my current NWN SoU game. It's very useful for some of the trickier opponents. I have cleave also, but only the basic feat.

	13-04-2004 16:57									#294
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Cleave is a keeper. It practically doubles your effectiveness at low levels.

-Jam

	07-05-2004 11:41									#295
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never tried the other traits , i sort of stick to the recommended ones as a fighter, i guess im miising a lot of oppurtunitys.

	08-05-2004 20:25									#296
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Also, Cleave is a step towards Great Cleave.

As to the feats with save bonuses, remember that saves come in two varieties. High (+12 at lvl 20) and low (+6 at lvl 20). Most classes will only get 1 save as high with a few getting two high and only monks getting all three high.

At low level, they all seem to be the same, but at 15+, the low save becomes very noticable. Especially on fighters and clerics who have low reflex saves along with low dex from heavy armour. The extra +2 from Lightning Reflexes might save your character from unnessary damage.

	08-05-2004 22:24									#297
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I usually don't get great cleave though. It's kind of hard to kill a creature with one blow at that point.

	08-05-2004 22:51									#298
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I think you have misread how Cleave works. You don't have to kill in one hit,.

Say you are fighting 4 Curst Warriors.

Now the one you are currently hitting is down to 2 hit points. When your next hit kills him, Cleave activates and you get a 'bonus' attack on one of the other three and he would then become focus. Upon his death, cleave would activate again and one of the last two would get the 'bonus' attack.

With Great Cleave, you would get a 'bonus' attack on each of the other three after the first one's death. These 'bonus' attacks are in addition to your character's normal number of attacks per round. However, Cleave/Great Cleave will only activate once per round.

	09-05-2004 06:17									#299
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Quite nifty if you get ganged by a group of weak weak enemies. Hit one and suddenly the group around you are dead - assuming you hit them.

	09-05-2004 07:44									#300
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wow must get into this cleave trait ...