01-04-2004 05:32									#241
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If you mean the ring from the soul-creature-thing, then you're assumed to have gotten it between the two modules somewhere.

Its an odd device, that's for sure.

-Jam

	01-04-2004 07:42									#242
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Ah, yes that one! I need to play this game again soon... I´m starting to forget stuff
I never used it, I tend to keep all kind of stuff for later use and always end up forgetting about them

spoiler(highlight to read): It was the thing used for "linking places" right?

	01-04-2004 12:27									#243
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quote: Originally posted by Jamski I thought I was unkillable untill I met some of the "boss fights" in chapter 2 - in particular a certain dracolich and a certain dead-magic infected spide zone. Now Chapter 3 is killing even my girl with the hacked Katana of Jamskianna Mu -Jam

hehe, the dead magic zone the first time, my wizard just sent Valen in to do all the dirty work. He had no trouble. Although I couldn't kill the big spidey at the end without first manipulating the ruin stone thingies.

The second time my cleric/dwarven defender struggled a little bit. But it was mostly just tedius. I wasn't using Valen, I was using the drow chick ( I found her to be pretty much useless).

	01-04-2004 12:40									#244
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Since I was playing as a "tank" character with no spells, the chick was pretty handy. Valen was just more of the same, and I didn't want to share any EXP with him

-Jam

	01-04-2004 12:47									#245
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I of course used Deekin.

Actually I started off not using Deekin as I didn't want to share the EXP . Plus I used him last game. So I only used 1 henchman.

But in Chapter 3 I couldn't use that Nathrrya chick as I betrayed the Seer this time around. She wasn't too happy with that and had to be put down. So I used Deekin and that other little lady you find frozen in a cave. I won't spoil it as I'm not sure if you've met her yet.

One interesting thing to note is your henchman level up even if you don't use them- like in KOTOR. I did not realize this.

	01-04-2004 13:06									#246
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quote: So I used Deekin and that other little lady you find frozen in a cave. I won't spoil it as I'm not sure if you've met her yet.

You realise she's not who she says she is.

Or has she turned from an Elf into a Half Elf? That's a good trick.

-Jam

	01-04-2004 13:10									#247
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I didn't even realize until someone over at the bioware forums mentioned it. I'm not sure what to think about that. Perhaps they just made a mistake

	01-04-2004 13:33									#248
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quote: Originally posted by Jamski If its Erdinger I'm managing OK tonight rost:

It was St. Georgen Bräu Kellerbier from the brewery across the street, together with a couple of "Williams Birne" pear spirits.

Warum in die Ferne schweifen, wenn das Gute liegt so nah?

	01-04-2004 14:39									#249
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Schluck für Schluck Fränkisch

quote: Warum in die Ferne schweifen, wenn das Gute liegt so nah?

Und woher kommt Williams Schnapps?

Looks a nice beer actually.

Anyway... NWN wasn't it?

Re: Miss "A" : Someone from Bioware claimed it was just an error, then he edited his post, trying to make it mysterious. But then another poster pointed out a whole series of other inconsistances, claiming it had to be on purpose. And Bioware/Atari have hinted at another NWN Exp Pack to come in the future... perhaps everything will be explained?

-Jam

	01-04-2004 18:13									#250
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I never noticed!
Maybe it´s part of all that new content they mentioned

quote: Although I couldn't kill the big spidey at the end without first manipulating the ruin stone thingies.

Aah! The Bebilith...
1st time: That **** thing destroyed my Robe of Vecna!
* Unspeakable Horror reloads...
2nd Time: Drow girl hides and goes to the other side, plays with the runes and everyone returns safely outside...

	02-04-2004 04:35									#251
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Ok I've been messing around with NWN this evening. I played the prologue to the original campaign to see the interface.

So I'll probably start on the SoU expansion since most people seem to prefer it. I need to choose a character, stats and skills. I am leaning towards a fighter/rogue, but am not really sure when to start taking the rogue levels. Also there are tonnes of feats and skills.........any I should make sure I include on my fighter to start?

	02-04-2004 05:24									#252
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quote: Originally posted by Doc Ok I've been messing around with NWN this evening. I played the prologue to the original campaign to see the interface. So I'll probably start on the SoU expansion since most people seem to prefer it. I need to choose a character, stats and skills. I am leaning towards a fighter/rogue, but am not really sure when to start taking the rogue levels. Also there are tonnes of feats and skills.........any I should make sure I include on my fighter to start?

START as a rogue! Get the bonus skill points right away. You don't even have to use them all and can save them for second level when you take fighter class.

ACK!

	02-04-2004 05:54									#253
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ok jsut bought the gold edition and the bonus 2nd expansion pack came with it... not bad for $80 i got the whole collectio n 2 expansions and the game.. jsut installed it last night and palyed for 4 hours straight pretty cool.... died a few times being too brave,,,,,


got as far as the prison and having great fun ..

oh i chose a boring old fighter as my character...

	02-04-2004 10:42									#254
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Doc:

Fighter/Rogue is not a good mix, Ranger/Rogue would be better.

Reason: Fighters usually wear heavy armor, which gives penalties in the Rogue's skills. Fighters usually are strength based, while Rogues need dexterity. You could build a DEX based fighter, but a better choice would be a Ranger in this case. Rangers get double wield feats for free, although this works only with light armor. This isn't a big loss, because your dexterity will be your best armor. Since rangers also depend on dexterity, their skills coexist better with the rogue's.

The most powerful character I ever built for the OC was a Ranger/Rogue. In the end he had level 15/3. He went solo for virtually the whole game. Only on rare occasions he had to summon his familiar, the mighty bear. He was able to detect and disarm traps as well as craft and set traps (great fun if you get the trick). He was double-wielding rapiers and was absolutely deadly with them. In the end, he had 6 attacks per round (4 right hand, 2 left), was double wielding a Namarra Rapier +2 (50% Sleep DC-14) and a Mercykiller Blade +2 (Rapier with 1D6 fire vs evil) and killed dragons in the first run without buff.

If you're interested in build details, I can be more specific.

	02-04-2004 12:02									#255
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quote: START as a rogue! Get the bonus skill points right away. You don't even have to use them all and can save them for second level when you take fighter class.

Yep, Rogues get masses of bonus Skill Points at first level only. I'd start almost every character with a level of Rogue - its quite possible to start with 60 skillpoints or something!!!

Ralph, the Fighter gets an extra feat every 2 levels. Your 15/3 build would have SEVEN more feats at those levels if it was a Fighter/Rogue build. Ok, then you can burn 3 of them on Ambidexterity, Two weapon fighting and Improved two weapon fighting, but still have an extra four feats more than the Ranger.

As for the armour issue, my 9/9/7 Fighter/Rogue/Weaponmaster has enough points in "use magic item" to wear Monk Robes That allows me to fully use my DEX of 32+

-Jam

	02-04-2004 12:18									#256
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Feats are not all.

For instance, you don't have an animal companion to be called only on need. Other than a henchman, it won't eat up your XP while doing virtually nothing and sometimes even needing protection. The animal companions (esp. dire wolf and bear) of the ranger are darn powerful. You won't be able to buff yourself (cat's grace, magic fangs for your animal). You won't have favorite enemies like dragons. When they came around, I already had a +4 attack, +4 damage against them. Helped a lot.

Finally don't forget a bit roleplay. A fighter dealing with traps, wth is that? A ranger OTOH...

	02-04-2004 12:31									#257
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quote: Originally posted by Doc Ok I've been messing around with NWN this evening. I played the prologue to the original campaign to see the interface. So I'll probably start on the SoU expansion since most people seem to prefer it. I need to choose a character, stats and skills. I am leaning towards a fighter/rogue, but am not really sure when to start taking the rogue levels. Also there are tonnes of feats and skills.........any I should make sure I include on my fighter to start?

I still kind of think the original campaign is worth playing through once if you have the time. There are some interesting parts. Just a few areas in chapter 2 that seemed to drag chapter 2 a long time. You can still get through the entire game fairly fast. It provides a little info on Aribeth and what happened in neverwinter, you'll come accross parts of this plot in Heros of the underdark.

	02-04-2004 12:33									#258
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I liked the original campaign, although It's gotten better with th expansions.

ACK!

	02-04-2004 12:36									#259
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I liked my ranger/rogue. I made the mistake of choosing ranger first, I forgot about all the bonus points rogues get at level 1. But I liked him.

I think they are better for roleplaying. but fighters do get more feats. And feats are useful especially for a duel class. Being a fighter/rogue will allow you to choose both the fighter based (power attack, cleave, knockdown etc) feats and rogue based feats (dodge, mobility, weapon finesse etc)

I played a ranger for roleplay reasons. They just seem more interesting than a plain ole' fighter.

But for the guy playing a fighter above, it is worth it to duel to a barbarian. Barbarians are pretty impressive.

fighter/cleric is still a strong class.

or go for a prestige class. Weapon master (I think this one requires some pretty high stats), dwarven defender, blackguard, there may be a couple more a fighter can do.

	02-04-2004 13:08									#260
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quote: Feats are not all.

I'm a feat freak. I feel cheated if I level up and I don't get a feat. I really like having loads of them, especially when the übercool epic feats become available. I love Improved Whirlwind attack (just for the animation!) and that needs about 6 feats as prerequisites

quote: For instance, you don't have an animal companion to be called only on need. Other than a henchman, it won't eat up your XP while doing virtually nothing and sometimes even needing protection. The animal companions (esp. dire wolf and bear) of the ranger are darn powerful.

Sorry, I never was fond of having a freaking bear that followed me about. Sure, its helpful in a few fights, but I don't like the RP aspects.

quote: You won't be able to buff yourself (cat's grace, magic fangs for your animal). You won't have favorite enemies like dragons. When they came around, I already had a +4 attack, +4 damage against them. Helped a lot.

All the good Ranger buffs/spells come in little bottles throughout the OC and the XPs.

quote: Finally don't forget a bit roleplay. A fighter dealing with traps, wth is that? A ranger OTOH...

Well, for RP reasons, I don't think a Ranger should multiclass at all, and certainly not to an "indoor" class like Rogue. If he's dedicated his life to hunting down specific monsters in the wilderness, how does it figure that he can pick locks? Rangers get some Rogue skills anyway (Hide, Spot, Move Silently, Set Snares) so I'd play a pure Ranger from a RP point of view (that's if I liked Rangers )

-Jam

	02-04-2004 13:13									#261
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I don't let a bear follow me. If the boss fight is done, I wave him bye-bye in a second. A henchman OTOH...

And my ranger could not pick locks. As you mentioned, that'd be against his role as lonely hunter and trapper. He had a general key in form of a stonefire axe, used only for this purpose.

	02-04-2004 13:20									#262
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Ok, what the hell. I'm going to run through the OC with a Ranger/Rogue and see if it actually is any fun. I know the combination is powerful, but let's see if its also fun. I won't dual wield rapiers though, I don't fancy the -4 to hit with both hands.

-Jam

	02-04-2004 13:32									#263
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The least attack penalty is -2/-2, so the -4/-4 doesn't make a big difference. You should in lower levels wield a dagger, shortsword or handaxe as second weapon, though, for that reason. As soon as you hit level 9 (ranger 6/rogue 3), the improved crit feat comes around. Take it immediately (rapier) and switch to dual rapiers. It works for both hands and lets you wield two weapons with a 15-20 crit range! Improved two weapons fighting comes around the same turn, meaning you gain a second attack for the left hand too. Your attack bonus is big enough to eat the -4 penalty, and the fact that 30% of your hits will be critical (meaning an average of 1.2 crits per turn!) makes more than up for that measly penalty. If you wield a light weapon off-hand, your penalty will be only -2/-2, but your chance for a critical will be only half as big. By the way, if you take a Namarra as one of the rapiers, you will daze your opponent pretty often and your 2D6 sneak attack bonus will kick in even when you're solo. That's very powerful!

EDIT: Ummm, scratch a part of the above. What I described, works not in level 9 (6/3), but in level 12 (9/3, = ranger level 9) and you get even 2 more attacks in that turn, because you get a third attack for the main hand, too.

Last edited by Sir Ralph on 02-04-2004 at 13:44

	02-04-2004 14:01									#264
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Hmmm... I'm not a big fan of critical-based damage builds. They're very "gamey" and really struggle vs Undead. Even basic Skeleton Warriors resist slashing and piercing damage, are immune to criticals and are immune to sneak attacks. This is where its nice to have taken a few extra Fighter feats to get Weapon Focus in warhammers or heavy flails. And we all know about Bioware's Undead fetish

Having said that, if I really wanted to make a huge critical build I'd take Fighter x/Weaponmaster 7 focusing in Scythes.

You can end up with criticals for 4 x damage, + an extra 4d6, on a 9-20 on a d20, taking 1.5 times your STR bonus because its two-handed. That's immense.

-Jam

	02-04-2004 14:17									#265
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how do you have time to play all thoe computer games Jamski?

And I agree about skeletons. I was using my blade on them in the dungeon of Apoltyon. They take longer to kill for sure. Arrows weren't much better. I quickly switched to using a mace, as that was the only weapon I had handy.

	02-04-2004 14:17									#266
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Don't take a warhammer. It's a strength based weapon. Have Marrok make you a Mace of Disruption and let it improve in chapter 3. That's all you need vs undead. And it is finesseable (very important!)

	02-04-2004 14:28									#267
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fighters are better from a powergamer perspective, but it takes a while before their extra feats kick in. Because you have to "waste" feats on ambidexterity and 2 weapon fighting.

Sure animal companions are neat to look at, but I didn't find them that useful in the Apolyton dungeon.

Those headless DL's tore my bear apart. And the bear has the most hitpoints (although I suspect their AC is terrible). The bear only lasted like 2 or 3 rounds!. I did most of that level by drawing them out. But I was forced to use the NPC provided to aid you. I did take Alexander's Horse all by myself though . That was after I lead all the headless DL's out of the room.

	02-04-2004 14:50									#268
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quote: Don't take a warhammer. It's a strength based weapon.

So? If I'm building a Ranger I'm not going to take a DEX higher than 18 (+4 AC is the maximum for studded leather) and then I want to work on my STR, get STR boosting items, cast Bull's Strength, etc. Finesse is fine if you're a Rogue with +5d6 sneak attack or more, but otherwise I like to actually hurt damage resistant creatures whem I hit them. This is the problem with 3rd edition rules.

As for RP, my current character is fighting unarmoured with a katana in one hand, and nothing in the other, despite having Improved TWF and sheild profieciency. I just think its cooler (and in PnP I would count as 1.5 x STR bonus for single handed weapon used like this)

Oh, and in PnP you must have your off-hand free to use finesse, not sure if its the same for NWN, but that kinda scuppers the high DEX two rapiers build if so.

[edit] @ Diss and his bear [/edit]

-Jam

	02-04-2004 14:54									#269
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yep strength is definately good to have. I wasn't overly impressed with weapon finesse, but other people seem to rave on it.

Maybe I'm still not fully grasping it yet. It would be nice if the dexterity bonus also applied to damage . But as is, I'm not sure if it is worth it.

I heard in KOTOR lightsabers use dexterity bonus'. I'm not sure about that. Essentually they would atumotacally be a finesse weapon. In that game as well, I still like to have decent strength. But I emphasize dexterity a lot more in that game since I only wear robes.

	02-04-2004 15:15									#270
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quote: Originally posted by Jamski So? If I'm building a Ranger I'm not going to take a DEX higher than 18 (+4 AC is the maximum for studded leather) and then I want to work on my STR, get STR boosting items, cast Bull's Strength, etc. Finesse is fine if you're a Rogue with +5d6 sneak attack or more, but otherwise I like to actually hurt damage resistant creatures whem I hit them. This is the problem with 3rd edition rules.

I was running around with STR 20, DEX 26. Should be enough in both cases. My base STR was 15 (14 from the start, +1 in level 8). My only STR item was a belt of Fire Giant Strength. As for damage resistant creatures... they are all vulnerable for something, you just have to find it, which isn't very hard. Of course, brute force always works, but that isn't fun if you do it for the 5th time.

quote: As for RP, my current character is fighting unarmoured with a katana in one hand, and nothing in the other, despite having Improved TWF and sheild profieciency. I just think its cooler (and in PnP I would count as 1.5 x STR bonus for single handed weapon used like this)

Doesn't work in NWN.

quote: Oh, and in PnP you must have your off-hand free to use finesse, not sure if its the same for NWN, but that kinda scuppers the high DEX two rapiers build if so.

Finesse works for both hands in NWN.