07-03-2004 05:35									#61
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 I figured that, but it is easy to over look things when you get a save form here. I am always finding they have turned on autosave. Also I like to have the color blind help on and that is often turned off. It gives the civ names and I find that helpful now that the colors are so similar. The worst is the wait at end being off, why?

Because I reinstalled conquests before making the save.

Normally color blind help would be on, wait at end of turn on, but autosave on. So I guess I normally would have been 66% closer to your preferences.

	07-03-2004 06:11									#62
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Well I played on this evening, and the game is under control. It's 1120AD, I just got ToE, and after some trades there are only 7 techs to go this age. My golden age is about to be triggered so that the remaining techs come nice and quick even without lots of land.

I'll post some thoughts when it is over.

	07-03-2004 07:07									#63
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by lethe Because I reinstalled conquests before making the save. Normally color blind help would be on, wait at end of turn on, but autosave on. So I guess I normally would have been 66% closer to your preferences.

Sorry I was not talking about this game, but just what you can run into with some game that I have downloaded.
If you had not confessed I would not even have known.

	08-03-2004 04:51									#64
	Increase Your PM Length

I finished up tonight, winning a UN victory in 1425AD. It was all over after Electricity, which was the second tech I got first (first was physics in the prior age - the start of the next age is always tricky with powerful scientific civs). After that ToE came and it was time to cruise home, with GA turbo boost.

	08-03-2004 07:47									#65
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Well I finished up the "alternative" start the other day (the one with no iron). As per my last post I was struggling to keep up in research and by the end of the Industrial age I was a tech down on the 2 leaders. I didn't fancy launching IC invasions to trim their research capacity so I planned on an early diplomatic finish.

With a UN pre-build going (which was difficult, since the only thing I had to pre-build in my mega-production capital was a 4-turn army), I timed my research so that I entered the Modern age with 1 turn to go on my pre-build. I then had to switch every city except my capital to wealth, in order to afford to buy Fission from the Ruskis or Babylonians. And it cost me 1700g + 1,000gpt!!!!!! Most expensive purchase for me ever, by a long way.

Anyway, I built the UN (only a few of turns ahead of the bonus-charged AI) and took a vote, which wasn't too risky since I hadn't declared war on anyone except the Greeks, and they were already dead, and everyone else was polite. Anyway, I won 8-1 (with Smoke-Jaguar voting for himself of course).

Diplomatic victory 1555AD

	08-03-2004 07:50									#66
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Hey doc, how did you change your login name?

	08-03-2004 08:27									#67
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by Thriller Hey doc, how did you change your login name?

You can change it and it will be logged, so you won't be adouble logon user.

One of the mods has a log with all changed userids. I think it is posted in the community forum.

	08-03-2004 09:48									#68
	Put an end to popups!

Have now started on the game most of you are playing....demi2. I admit to feeling a little lost and out of my depth on this one.

A couple of factors combined to put me way behind at the start. Firstly, I didn't found a coastal town until I think my 3rd (by which time I had already realised I was alone on an island....duh!)....and so the Curragh build and contact took a while.....meaning of course that my starting techs were useless in trade.

Secondly, I chose Pottery first for the Granaries, then moved on to Alphabet and Writing for Philosophy.....but this didn't work as it took me too long to get to Writing, which again the other civ's already had. So with no tech trading opportunities early I was falling woefully behind.

So in a desperate attempt to catch up I went for Literature (in actual fact a reasonable strategy in C3C as the AI often skips it). Upon researching Lit, and with a little help from the backward Greeks (who were only 5 ahead of me instead of 11 like the rest), I managed to score 10 techs from Literature, which only left me Currency to get to the Middle Ages. However, I'd given away some gpt deals to get there and Currency took me a while, meaning I was again several techs behind once I hit the Middle ages.

Another mistake - I left settling the northern part of my island too late and the Vikings snatched the incense rich grounds just as my settler was making his way there. So there's going to be a war soon - I need those extra luxuries for later tech trading.

Apart from that, I REX'd ok (well, I am on an island so it shouldn't be too hard), and have spaced my towns perilously close together (2 tiles in some cases) for possible abandonment later.

Thats about it so far. Not too confident on this one.

	08-03-2004 13:42									#69
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

ducki, I do you have any more recent saves? I didn't keep one close to your 270BC, but from the ones I have I'm in pretty similar shape to you....except you've got tons of cash and I'm flat broke! Your early research /trading was much better than mine, and I caught up somewhat by getting Literature first, but still behind you I would guess.

	08-03-2004 20:53									#70
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Err..I'm not sure. I may have taken a hiatus from this to let my brain recharge.

I did get a 3-5 curraghs out rather early and explored far and wide. I also, after getting pottery at 100%, I think, and then either researching or trading for Alphabet dropped research down rather low(could have even been zero for a while) - IIRC - knowing I couldn't keep up and planning on being the broker, which requires either a strong research infrastructure and knowing which techs the AI will avoid, or a lot of cash. I chose cash because I was struggling so badly with infrastructure and improvements and the wonder completion notices were going by so quickly I just assumed I couldn't compete head-on.

I'll check later on if I have another save, though, and post it if so. Maybe I'll get back to this once I've regrouped, mentally.

	09-03-2004 15:48									#71
	Remove this text

Played through to 890AD.

I began in around 280AD still chasing Feudalism and falling further and further behind in research. I was building up my Swords (and later MI) to take out the Viking Incense on my Island, and planned to take their single town on the shared south-east island and their 2-town western island. Huge France played havoc with these plans by landing and declaring war in the midst of the conflict (after first assuring me they were leaving). They gave up fairly quickly and accepted some coins for peace. We ended up achieving the rather modest objectives - although only just and at the cost of one of my homeland towns that the invasion force left undefended - retook it and negotiated peace. Also during this period I allowed my GA to be generated by building a Samurai - I decided it was now or never, and I couldn't fall further behind or it would be game over.

In the peace negotiations with the Vikings I picked up a cheap tech, then started trading around with the more backward civs (with my new found GA-charged income) and caught up reasonably well. I've also managed to pick up lots of extra luxuries on tech trades with backward civs - and the 3 extra incense from the Viking seizure was worth it for this too!

I'm now about to buy Theory of Gravity and hopefully use that to acquire Magnetism and/or Metallurgy, and move into the Industrial age with more than half of my GA still intact. The rest of the GA will be used to build Universities and Cathedrals. My worker camps will really start coming into their own by pumping workers to be added to my size 6 towns to get them closer to size 12 cities, and I should then be competitive again.

So, I think I've finally found some direction after languishing for many many years at zero research and +35gpt cash and trying to buy a valuable tech for trading.

	09-03-2004 22:00									#72
	Support Apolyton

Ancient Era

Moved my city a bit, and started building some scouts. I noticed I was stuck on an island by myself, and I was glad I went for Alphabet first.

I built some Chariots (since I didn't have HBR or IW), because land defense wouldn't be very important, except against barbs (which never appeared ).

In the early game, I concentrated on building Temples and Curraghs in coastal cities while I try to catch up in research to build other things.

I meet the Mayans in 1650 BC, but they had a lot more techs than me and I couldn't trade… continued researching Writing after Alphabet, hoping that I would be the first there in order to catch up.

I sent a suicide Curragh heading west in 1600… but it sinks.

With my first Curragh heading south I managed to meet a lot more of the other civs on the map, including the Sumerians and Mongols who are immensely ahead in techs compared to everyone else (especially me).

In 1125 I finished Writing (finally!) and by a miracle, the Mayans didn't have it yet - in return I got Bronze Working, Warrior Code, Mysticism, Masonry and 62 gold. I traded around a bit more with the Greeks and Scandinavians to get closer to parity (but not with Sumeria or the Mongols…)

After this I focused on building up gold rather than researching.

I met Egypt in 1000 BC who were pretty backward but had some techs I didn't have, and they helped to bring me back parity once more. I engaged in some tech whoring in 850 with the help of Egypt, Greece and the Maya.

I continued to progress through the ages, got pretty far behind in techs (5-6) by the time I got to the early Medieval Era. I had been focusing on building Libraries and Markets to improve my economy, and had a very weak army and an inadequate navy for doing anything.

Medieval Era

I start off with Engineering, since nobody besides the Sumerians or Mongols has it yet. The more "backward" civs like Egypt and France are starting to catch up more and more, and I start falling behind the entire pack in techs. After squeezing out the top section of the tech tree from somewhere, I started going down the Printing Press path (others have Astronomy already…) since no one has it yet.

In 520 AD, I finished PP, made a bunch of trades for gold and tech (including Chivalry) and a world map, and begun building up a force of Samurai… I planned on going to find a target in order to try and win some techs and possibly more land that way.

I ended up picking the Maya as my target, hoping to take their spices and their jungle in case I had no coal. I built up a navy of 14 Galleys and landed with 24 Samurais, taking the small island to my SE, and a city they'd built in my arctic in addition to the jungle land at the west of the Mayan empire. I lost a few Samurai, but managed to secure everything west of the chokepoint, and the Mayan Longbowman hordes started moving my way. I ended up slaughtering their entire counter-attack with minimal loss, and even managed to generate 2 leaders and got two 15/15 Samurai armies. However, things went downhill from there… I ended up losing most of my units trying to take the large cities east of the chokepoint, and barely made it out alive when they started building Knights. I'd been focusing on building Universities to help my economy out at home, and hadn't been building Samurais. Somebody's Privateers also managed to sink about 2/3 of my Galley fleet. I made peace, receiving Theory of Gravity in return. I finished the Medieval Age a few techs behind the leaders, but with a supercharged economy with Universities, ready to compete technologically for real in the Industrial Era.

It's now 1020 AD and I'm playing through the early Industrial Era, hoping to plant a bunch of factories, get ToE (got a nice prebuild going) and Hoover.

	10-03-2004 07:13									#73
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Thriller ducki, I do you have any more recent saves?

Found one. I'm in trouble.
Encroachers on my continent.
About to "accidentally" build either a new palace or a really expensive city improvement.

Sumeria has a monopoly on Feudalism, which would allow me to transfer shields to Sun Tzu's, but he's not trading and I have to "fix" the prebuild this turn.

Ragnar will trade me Mono, but I have to set myself up to go into riots, send him my only horses, all 431 of my gold, and 33 gpt - in order to keep my citizens happy this turn, I only have 17gpt coming in, or to use entertainers in the rioting city to finish off the settler, 27gpt.

I should have known I couldn't build the Great Library and just continued to save the cash until this point instead of shelling out for Literature. Stupid, stupid, stupid. Must reread Ision's 4 Rules of Wonder Addiction again.

Anyone got any great ideas on how not to lose all those shields? Hopefully it's something silly I'm just overlooking in my mental disarray.

	10-03-2004 07:15									#74
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

My game has gone quickly downhill. I overstretched myself buying techs with my GA income, and mis-timed the end of it, which plunged me into negative income just as I had purchased Steam Power for a huge gpt. And I lost the gamble anyway, since I didn't have coal. Have now been madly adding workers to cities and finishing banks, building my income again. Unfortunately most University builds have been sacrificed for now, which means I'm still a basket-case researcher.

Oh, and in the middle of it all those pesky French (yep, that "low aggression" civ) invaded me again while I wasn't looking, captured my small western island and took a homeland city which I recaptured minus all the cultural improvements and a bunch of pop points. They agreed to peace a few turns later - troops must have been bored. The French never seem to have the stomach for a decent war.

Currently building Cavalry and Riflemen to take the Viking coal city on the Mayan homeland...then build Factories and Universities to restart my economy.

I think I've now been around the block and back on city spacing - getting too close now. A bunch of my cities are stuck at size 10, including coastal squares, with nowhere to expand and sucky production. I'm going to have to abandon some to increase production, but my 3 camps are currently vital for pumping out future RR workers.

I must be quite a few techs behind, but the AI's seem to be pursuing either the Corporation branch or the usual "Crappy Government" diversion, since no-one has Medicine. I'm tossing up whether to research it myself or simply buy Industrialisation and get on with the Factories/Coal plants (once I've got the Coal resource). Coal seems pretty scarce on this map - only about 6 I can see, IIRC.

ToE and Hoovers, while still available, remain a distant dream for me! And it's already 1180AD.

	10-03-2004 07:28									#75
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by ducki Anyone got any great ideas on how not to lose all those shields?

If there really is nothing else to build and you can't buy the tech you need to switch, there's not much you can do. How many shields away from the Palace are you? In this situation if there's some leeway, I've occasionally put all my labourers on entertainment and drip-fed production at 1spt until the tech is available (at the cost of some starvation, which is no big deal really). This also costs some income though, which is a big deal in your situation.

Has Sumeria got Monotheism? If not, you may be able to scrape enough together to buy it and trade it to Sumeria for Feudalism, since it's more expensive.....but again, a gamble cos you may not be able to offer enough.

I know how you feel ducki....my game's been a struggle all along too. This feels even harder than the other start Lethe gave us, with no resources except horses. As vmxa1 said, more land can be a good trade-off for less resources.

	10-03-2004 16:53									#76
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I've played the start of the other game and even if there are no resources for the entire game it's easier than this game. It's tricky since you are stuck between the rock of not enough land and the hard place of invading someone tough.

If there is a demand I'll post some strategic thoughts on how to get the most out of what's available in this game and why I played the way I did to a finish in 1425AD. Maybe we can even compare some saves.

	10-03-2004 18:55									#77
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by Doc If there is a demand I'll post some strategic thoughts on how to get the most out of what's available in this game and why I played the way I did to a finish in 1425AD. Maybe we can even compare some saves.

Well, this is exactly why this thread was created, if I'm correct.

	10-03-2004 19:43									#78
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Well yes, but I did the same in your similarly themed Emperor thread and no one seemingly read it at all, despite the fact I finished in a very good time for a large map.

As I say I'll do the same here, but it takes a long time to get all the key screenshots and write up a summary of my thoughts, so I am wary of getting the same response as in the emperor thread.

	10-03-2004 20:21									#79
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Unless you're looking for help with your game, there's no point in posting game reports expecting for a response. Most people that read this stuff are lurkers and never post. You have to want to do it for the benefit of others.


Dominae

	10-03-2004 20:34									#80
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Yeah, Sumeria already has Mono. I had bought that at "almost monopoly" a little while back hoping to parlay that for Feudalism, but it didn't work. At least, I think that's what I did. At any rate, I don't know the exact shieldcount to finish the palace, just that it's only 1 turn away. Maybe I should check the 'pedia and see what is the closest in shield-cost to the Palace that I have available or can buy(Mono, if I'm willing to deficit spend for a little while). Alternately, maybe letting the palace move wouldn't be all bad. I'm not sure, I have really never understood palace moving and corruption and FP, etc. I think that was probably my very first thread here, asking for help with that.

I dunno. Looking at the save, though, and being only 1 turn from finishing the Palace with no wonder to switch to, I remember why I hung this one up for a while.

Oh, and the Mongols landed a settler pair by the northern incense and will settle before my own settler gets there. Argh. Maybe I should just retire and get more practice at Emperor.

	10-03-2004 21:09									#81
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

What's different between the two saves besides the resources?

I have the demi2 one (with the extra resources) and though they've helped out a bit, I can't say that it really hurt all that much (except for not having oil...). All you have to do is trade for some iron and wreck someone with your Samurai. Though I suppose having to trade for coal would be pretty annoying, but that's why I conquered part of the Maya with my Samurai... so that if I didn't have coal I'd get some in all that jungle.

	10-03-2004 21:33									#82
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

You had to trade for Iron in demi2?! There's a nice source available to me right in the middle of that mountain range...

	10-03-2004 21:49									#83
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I didn't have to like Trip, but I did find I could get better trade deals by trading away my native Iron and Horses and sole Incense then using techs I got in those deals to trade with other Civs and get them to throw in a "replacement" luxury/iron/horse. Sure would be nice if I could buy Wines from Ragnar then sell them to Smoke-Jaguar straight away, though. Probably unbalancing, I guess, but I did freely trade away my only resources if it would put me in a brokerage position, knowing that I could _probably_ replace it from someone else. Must've been from recently rereading SVC.

	10-03-2004 22:09									#84
	Increase Your PM Length

I whored the iron and saltpeter for large stretches in the game. Mostly I managed to get them back using tech from backward civs. Selling them to the Sumerians, Mayans and Mongols was nice and profitable.

	11-03-2004 01:55									#85
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by Dominae You had to trade for Iron in demi2?! There's a nice source available to me right in the middle of that mountain range...

No no, I was talking about the other game posted. I played demi2 (good resource situation in that one, 'cept for oil so far). Someone mentioned something about having only Horses.

	11-03-2004 05:56									#86
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I'm taking a break from pzvh's Feudalism game... which of these two should I play?

Great posts by all, btw... Doc, tell us the story!!

	11-03-2004 06:42									#87
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I've been up to my neck in SATA drive identification problems, which I have just solved. Tomorrow though.

	11-03-2004 14:01									#88
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

DP

Last edited by Aqualung71 on 11-03-2004 at 14:13

	11-03-2004 14:04									#89
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Trip No no, I was talking about the other game posted. I played demi2 (good resource situation in that one, 'cept for oil so far). Someone mentioned something about having only Horses.

Confusion, confusion!!!!

demigod.sav - the original start posted, was moved down to the 4th post because it lacked all resources except Horses.

demi2.sav - replaced the original start in the first post and does have iron

And I tend to agree with Doc - the resource-starved start is rather intimidating at first, but the pump-potential and the REX-friendly landmass seems to make this an easier map than the one with more resources. I'm struggling with demi2, and am way behind where I was at the same stage in demigod.

	11-03-2004 15:28									#90
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by Doc As I say I'll do the same here, but it takes a long time to get all the key screenshots and write up a summary of my thoughts, so I am wary of getting the same response as in the emperor thread.

Well I, for one, would like to see your screenies and comments Doc. I played/playing both these games and felt out of my depth at various times, so post away!