28-02-2004 11:24									#1
	Now THIS is how Civ was meant to be enjoyed! Enter the AD-FREE zone

After being forced by circumstances to basically shelf the game right after I got C3C, I've been able to pick it back up again recently. In the meantime, I rebuilt my computer, going from a 500 MHz P3 to a 3 GHz P4 (no small undertaking for someone like me, who knows just enough about these machines to be dangerous ). The deeper into my current game I go, playing 8 civs on a huge map, the more I am amazed at how quickly and flawlessly it runs now. 150 automated workers running around? Go get a drink and settle in for a bit, right? Not anymore, hold shift for about 5 seconds, then continue with the game.

This is neither here nor there, but I thought some might get a kick out of it (plus, I'm still patting myself on the back for pulling off the rebuild).

	28-02-2004 11:55									#2
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Here is another hand. I still turn off all automation except battles, just don't need to see them.

Welcome back.

	28-02-2004 12:44									#3
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Thanks, vmxa. Btw, I noticed that it is possible to have two scientific leaders at the same time (got them on back to back techs, in fact). I'm sure this has been discussed, but does the presence of one preclude getting a military leader?

	28-02-2004 20:26									#4
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quote: Originally posted by Solomwi Thanks, vmxa. Btw, I noticed that it is possible to have two scientific leaders at the same time (got them on back to back techs, in fact). I'm sure this has been discussed, but does the presence of one preclude getting a military leader?

Nope... MGLs are counted seperately from SGLs.

jon.

	28-02-2004 22:51									#5
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Actually, I believe alexman tested it and determined that the presence of a leader, whether MGL or SGL, precludes getting an MGL -- you can have multiple SGLs at the same time, but if an SGL is present, you can't generate a battle-created leader (i.e., an MGL).

Catt

	28-02-2004 22:58									#6
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I cannot say for sure, but I do know I have had MGL and SGL at the same time. Since I use my SGL quickly, it was probably MGL and then SGL.

I have seen a post where they had MGL and 2 SGL's. I DL one yesterday that had two SGL's. So for sure you can have more than one SGL.

	29-02-2004 00:44									#7
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I'va had mulitple SGL's before too but I can't remember if i've had mulitple MGL's before. Usually I am scared of missing one so I use them really quickly. But it seems you can't use more than 1 GL to rush mulitple wonders in any one city anymore???

	29-02-2004 01:04									#8
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No multi MGL, only SGL.

	29-02-2004 02:17									#9
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Hey Solomonwi! How much RAM do you have?

Catt, is correct, alexman tested and concluded that having any GL, whether M or S, will preclude generation of an MGL.

	29-02-2004 04:14									#10
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Hmm... I could have sworn they were counted seperately. I know there was thread awhile back that discussed this at length (I couldn't find it, but then again I didn't look to hard). Maybe I was thinking about the other way around... that having a MGL does not preclude the creation of an SGL.

jon.

	29-02-2004 05:35									#11
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Thanks for the info, Catt.

Theseus... only 512 MB right now, but that's about to change as soon as I recover from the parts expense of the rebuild (motherboard, RAM, power supply, AGP card and new hard drive). I'm comfortable with the performance now, but want to be able to say "I've got a gig of memory".

	29-02-2004 07:17									#12
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512 is enough for civIII, it never used that much in any of my runs, even supersized maps.

	01-03-2004 03:31									#13
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512's even enough for CivIII with Winamp, four instances of Word and IE (tuned to 'Poly, of course ) running in the background. At the right time, though, as I'm sure you know, memory can be had for a song, so as soon as a special hits around here, I'm cramming it in.

	01-03-2004 05:11									#14
	Increase Your PM Length

I am all for get extra, I used 1gb, even thought it is not needed.
I seldom have more than a few windows open at a time.

	01-03-2004 10:53									#15
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Looks like we're on the same boat. I recently upgraded to a 3 GHZ P4 from my old P3 450.

My P3 450 actually ran Civ3 on huge just fine, with 16 civs and chugged along on PTW depending on the map type. Pangeas are faster than continents since there is less shoreline to calculate trade routes.

Ironically, as I switched to my new computer and started my last game of PTW in anticipaiton of C3C and since that time, I've played on standard maps.

I look foward to doing a 16 civ game on a huge map again in the future. But Standard actually feels pretty good right now with 18 to 20 hour games.

	01-03-2004 12:30									#16
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Yes islands is the hardest on the game. I deliberately kept the 24 civs alive to allow the game to really bog down.
So to me it was a worst case scenario with an oversized map.

Most would not have something like 16 to 18 civs alive at the end of the game.

	02-03-2004 19:33									#17
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it works smoothly on my old duron 850 mhz w/ 512 ram. but then, i only play in standard maps or smaller ones, i rarely go for the huge behemoths.

	02-03-2004 19:39									#18
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[jealous]

my 1.7 is getting old

and I think the hd might be dying, that I purchased in september.

	03-03-2004 01:48									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Solomwi Thanks for the info, Catt. Theseus... only 512 MB right now, but that's about to change as soon as I recover from the parts expense of the rebuild (motherboard, RAM, power supply, AGP card and new hard drive). I'm comfortable with the performance now, but want to be able to say "I've got a gig of memory".

FYI XP does not use the extra 512M if you bump memory to 1G.

You will probably have to go higher to have any effect.

PF

	03-03-2004 02:23									#20
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quote: Originally posted by planetfall FYI XP does not use the extra 512M if you bump memory to 1G. You will probably have to go higher to have any effect. PF

What do you mean by not use? Are you thinking of Win9x?

	03-03-2004 03:33									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Catt Actually, I believe alexman tested it and determined that the presence of a leader, whether MGL or SGL, precludes getting an MGL -- you can have multiple SGLs at the same time, but if an SGL is present, you can't generate a battle-created leader (i.e., an MGL). Catt

First I've seen of this info. Good to know.

Oh, and I run civ on a 800mhz machine, with 128MB of RAM, IIRC. Bah! I don't need no steeking speed machine!



-Arrian

	03-03-2004 04:18									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian First I've seen of this info. Good to know. Oh, and I run civ on a 800mhz machine, with 128MB of RAM, IIRC. Bah! I don't need no steeking speed machine! -Arrian

Arrian, you do need a faster computer. I've seen you work out the WF orders in your head quicker than you could do it on a computer.

WF = work force AKA citizens for those who haven't seen the designation before.

	03-03-2004 05:29									#23
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Arrian 128MB is scary. The CPU speed can be lived with, but the memory will really hurt. You can go to 512 for the price of a new game as long as it is not the DDR type ( probably not supported on your MB anyway).

You are a brave soul and have my condolences.

	03-03-2004 23:06									#24
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Wow, Arrian, my frontside bus is 800 MHz.

At one point, I was playing on 500 MHz with 128 MB RAM (and stubbornly insisting on playing huge maps then, too). I can sympathize with you.

quote: FYI XP does not use the extra 512M if you bump memory to 1G.

planetfall, I'm a little confused by this statement as well. Would you elaboarate, plaese?

	07-03-2004 00:32									#25
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quote: The deeper into my current game I go, playing 8 civs on a huge map, the more I am amazed at how quickly and flawlessly it runs now.

I know how you feel.
I went from 333Mhz Celeron with 64MB RAM (bare minimum) to 2600XP Athlon with 512MB RAM.

Difference is fantastic!

	08-03-2004 11:35									#26
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I have 2 laptops Compaq 2.66G with 128 and 256M each, and 1 computer with 2 CPUs 1.44G and 512M.

The best configuration for large map with 16 Civs is:
At home :
Used 2 laptops for, of course for 2 games, while one is waiting for the turns, u can play using the other laptops (multitasking )
At office :
Well no choice, I couldn't use 2 laptops on my desk for games (no time for switching, and too obvious). But you can browse to apolyton while waiting for your turn though

	09-03-2004 20:35									#27
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You can go much lower, I got the game running on a P200 with 64MB RAM, I even mounted the cd as an image

I'll admit it was painfully slow though.....I normally play on a P3 450MHz with 256MB RAM. Which works fine except it takes forever to exit the game

	09-03-2004 21:36									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Rhothaerill Arrian, you do need a faster computer. I've seen you work out the WF orders in your head quicker than you could do it on a computer. WF = work force AKA citizens for those who haven't seen the designation before.

Heh. Actually, no, I really don't need a faster computer.

And I'm not positive about the RAM, it *could* be 256 instead of 128. I just don't remember.

I play on standard maps/8 civs and the game runs fine. No complaints here.

The slowdowns occur when *I* am slow - when my empire gets large and I have lots of units to move and cities to manage.

So, while I could get a computer that is massively more powerful than the one I currently have for a few hundred bucks... I just don't need it. Hence, that's a couple of hundred bucks I don't need to spend.

Besides, the longer I wait, the more powerful the computer I eventually buy will be

-Arrian

	09-03-2004 21:59									#29
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If you had run on a faster system you may see the "need".

I saw the turns double in length from my 1.7GH to my 3.066GH.
If you have 256MB, that is probably fine, depending on the OS and how much else you are running at the same time. If 128MB, that is going to be a bottleneck.

	09-03-2004 23:21									#30
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Ok, I admit, running the game and my internet connection (MSN) at the same time is sometimes problematic...

But typically I run nothing other than the game when I play, so that's not a big deal. The only time it matters is when I play a turn for Cake or Death in ptwdgII.

-Arrian