19-03-2004 02:46									#31
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Yes, that's the iron that we are hooking back up in a couple turns to get some warriors and spears upgraded. It's easy to cut again since we only have to cut one road or add one road back in to rehook it.

We also still have the source near Kung Pao that is obvious and the source that will be in our borders as of next turn when we build another city in the west.

	19-03-2004 03:00									#32
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Arrian, We haven't decided whether SS is just acting yet. Worst case, they are allied with LL and acting, best case, they are being true but are going to be a pain in our ass by opposing any offensive moves. quote: The strike on Monkey was Python's idea. They figured they didn't have enough room and needed to conquer someone. Plus, I think they just decided that peaceful trading was boring. I guess they figured hitting their good friend and neighbor, CoD, wouldn't be fun, so they convinced us to assist in a hit on Monkey instead. We weren't really in a position to refuse. Had we refused, perhaps the logical (and easier) choice would have prevailed, and we would currently find ourselves being crushed. Gee, hmmm, I've never been in that situation... I'm told by the turn players, we got your iron. This will give us 3 sources IIRC, and we would be happy to share assuming this relation keeps progressing as it is. Makes me wonder just how modded this map is once again, though... Next research is as of yet undecided. Some depends on SS giving us Monotheism, of course, and if you were to head for Invention (longbows anyone?) we would without a doubt head for Chivalry. I have at least proposed skipping it at one point, though. It could very well be that LL has changed stances and is considering heading across the pond. To our knowledge, though, their navy consists of 2 ships at present. I can say that we have no interest in seeing them expand at anyone elses expense at this point. - UnOrthOdOx

	19-03-2004 03:37									#33
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: UnO, Technically, you got Python's iron THREE sources! Well, perhaps we can work out a trade down the road, but until someone either builds the Lighthouse or discovers Astronomy, that's not possible. Thanks for bringing it up, nonetheless. I think CoD will most likely pursue Invention, for several reasons. First, Chivalry conveys no benifit for us, without iron. Second, it's on the path to gunpowder, and we would dearly love to know if we have SP (keep in mind the two primary members of CoD are myself and Cort Haus, both Stormians!). Third, yeah, longbows. Not like we built many archers, though. It also allows Leos, though I don't think we are anywhere near ready to throw down 600 shields on a wonder. We've got too much else going on. Dunno about the map being heavily modded... certainly not to the extent that the MZO DG map must've been. Anyway, I've really enjoyed this candid discussion of ours. Early in the game, Python and CoD were similarly frank, and it lead to a good friendship and solid alliance. Can you do me a favor and keep me informed as to what happens between you and SS with regard to Monotheism? I mean, there is the question of the trade going through at all, but there is also the question of whether there is a no-trade on Monotheism. CoD would like to get ahold of that tech at some point. -Arrian

	19-03-2004 03:49									#34
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Arrian, Standard procedure with Sunshine seems to be a 20 turn no-trade. However, I am going to do my best to convince my team of the tech alliance, and giving both it and Theology to you guys after their respective No-trade periods. On Invention, We are not neccessarily in a HURRY for Chivalry, and there is a decent chance we could research the invention/gunpowder route faster than you. Especially if Python were to assist funding... This would of course require some amount of trust on your end, but I believe we've placed a good start here towards that end. I also think the speedier research would benefit your end of the pond more than us. Just throwing out ideas now, you'll get used to it. Some of them never make any sense either. - UnOrthOdOx

	19-03-2004 04:57									#35
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I haven't finished reading the numerous posts here - but an Engineering trade to Sunshine is a no-go - because they already have it - it was their free tech via their scientific trait

They are currently researching Monotheism (they will probably finish it a few turns after we are done with Feudalism from what I understand).

Last edited by Sharpe on 19-03-2004 at 05:09

	19-03-2004 18:48									#36
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Well, if you can indeed research faster than us (entirely possible, I'll grant), then it may in fact be better for Python to send money your way to help fund Invention research, while CoD does Chivalry for you (smaller tech). As we get close to discovering Engineering, I suppose the best thing for us to do is to disclose our beaker output to each other. More specifically, what the beaker output is at a given science rate, and how much of a deficit that produces. But that can wait a bit. Monotheism/Theology after 20 turn waits is probably fine. We're in no position to start plunking down 160 shield cathedrals, or even think about the Sistine. Universities are a loooong way off too. Hell, we only have a couple of libraries. -Arrian

quote: Unfortunately I was mistaken in my information. I can see where I got confused, but never mind. Sunshine in fact got Engineering as their free tech, but are ahead of us in the tech race, so will finish Monotheism this turn or next and then start Theology. Actually, in some ways this is better as we are not as far behind as I thought. That would leave MAST as the only team on this continent without Engineering, (since LL is "researching" it) so if the deal is still ok with us giving Eng to MAST substituted for SS, we would appreciate it. If not, it was my mistake and we'll eat it. I'll ask the techies to give me beaker counts when we finish Feudalism. If the Mono deal comes through, and we are indeed faster, hording gold till you finish Engineering would be favorable. - UnOrthOdOx

	19-03-2004 21:51									#37
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I'm not averse to trading beaker counts, but we won't have a solid handle on what our beaker count output will be until after the switch to republic. Sharpe is currently working on a sim so that we can project our republic totals before we actually get there.

	19-03-2004 22:18									#38
	Got spare money?

My reasoning for this:

If it happens, (I'm confident we will be better in science) We will have effectively stolen away CoD's research support, AND they'll be happy about it. Python funding us GPT to research? It'll just snowball from there, as we will ALWAYS be faster, but they'll be happy about it cause it'll be in the name of the alliance.

Right up to the point we crush em that is.

	22-03-2004 03:02									#39
	Support Apolyton

A tech alliance is the only way we could get both Invention and Chiv in time to get aggressive with someone. So, as long as they're willing to do that so we can start our own war over here, that would be great.

I'd rather war now than with Cavalry if you warmongers think it's possible. The sooner the conquering the sooner the building. Gib me lend!

	11-04-2004 01:42									#40
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Apology PM sent to Arrian and Cort Haus

quote: To Arrian and Cort Haus, I regret I have to send this PM. Team Tabemono screwed up. While playing this past turn we accidentally sent contact with Monkey to Sunshine and MAST while sending them Python contact. We have no excuse beyond that we made a mistake and read UnO's posted orders incorrectly (for which he has already chastized our team). We don't really know what to do now as the save has already been passed through a few other teams. I'll try to have OPD from MAST and Togas from Sunshine contact your team to discuss with you the non-interference pact that we have. Again, Tabemono apologizes profusely. Rhoth

	13-04-2004 20:36									#41
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Message from Arrian. We had probably better talk about compensation and figure out the tech deal.

quote: What's done is done. Obviously, I'm not happy about it, but mistakes happen and this one cannot be reversed. I now expect that Monkey will be relocated, probably southwest of SS... there is PLENTY of room on your continent for another civ. That is if we actually win the war anytime soon - it's going to be very bloody. We have not heard from either SS or MAST, by the way. CoD would appreciate some sort of compensation for what occurred. I'm honestly not sure what to ask for... perhaps a tech discount in the future, or cash... but of course it's really hard to place a hard value on this. It might end up hurting CoD a lot, or not at all, or somewhere in between. Speaking of tech, LL has asked us for a price to buy Engineering from us. I haven't yet responded because I don't have a clue yet what to ask for, and also because I remember that our Eng-Feud deal involved you passing Eng to one team over there and us passing Feud to Python. I didn't think LL was the team you were going to send Eng to, but I wasn't sure. I think we should hammer out the specifics of that deal, so we know whether or not we can see Eng to LL, and then figure out who is going to go for Invention. I suspect it will be your team that is best at research, given your size, the Pyramids, and your industriousness (fewer workers needed). We have a horde of workers, and that horde is growing all the time. So, despite having several libraries and some markets, our research power is reduced due to unit upkeep. -Arrian

	13-04-2004 21:26									#42
	Increase the size of your Attachments

My response to Arrian.

quote: Greetings Arrian. Tabemono has already discussed compensating you for our mistake, though we do not know what would be good either. A discount on a tech in the future would probably be fine, but I think our teams should discuss it further first. Regarding the tech deal, I believe it was Sunshine, but I'm not positive. I'm not usually the FAM guy for Tabemono, but Uno is busy moving so someone had to tell you about our mistake. I drew the short straw. I'll take this whole thing back to my team and we'll try to get back to you within the next few days about the tech deal. Thanks for your understanding, Rhoth

	13-04-2004 21:32									#43
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: quote: What's done is done. Obviously, I'm not happy about it, but mistakes happen and this one cannot be reversed. I now expect that Monkey will be relocated, probably southwest of SS... there is PLENTY of room on your continent for another civ. That is if we actually win the war anytime soon - it's going to be very bloody. We have not heard from either SS or MAST, by the way. I can almost promise you I am the least happy person in this situation. I've already had it out with the team. As for Monkey relocating over here, I have made my views VERY clear to SS, and I can to MAST as well. I've not been active as much, and won't be until I get the house sold and us moved into a new on in RL. That could be a few months. Should either team assist Monkey in a move, I will be very favorable to declaring war on Monkey/the assisting team. I'll make a poll for an official team stance. quote: CoD would appreciate some sort of compensation for what occurred. I'm honestly not sure what to ask for... perhaps a tech discount in the future, or cash... but of course it's really hard to place a hard value on this. It might end up hurting CoD a lot, or not at all, or somewhere in between. I've already suggested compensation but am at a loss as well reguarding what it should be. We WILL do our best to compensate, though. quote: Speaking of tech, LL has asked us for a price to buy Engineering from us. I haven't yet responded because I don't have a clue yet what to ask for, and also because I remember that our Eng-Feud deal involved you passing Eng to one team over there and us passing Feud to Python. I didn't think LL was the team you were going to send Eng to, but I wasn't sure. They weren't. Our whole side of that deal fell through, **** happens. At least it revealed some things about the diplomacy on this side of the water. Go ahead and sell it, I doubt they would want to buy both Feudalism and Engineering from us, thus giving us double the money. However, could you delay a few turns to give us a headstart on Invention over them? quote: I think we should hammer out the specifics of that deal, so we know whether or not we can see Eng to LL, and then figure out who is going to go for Invention. I suspect it will be your team that is best at research, given your size, the Pyramids, and your industriousness (fewer workers needed). We have a horde of workers, and that horde is growing all the time. So, despite having several libraries and some markets, our research power is reduced due to unit upkeep. We would prefer to research Invention, and MAST is supposed to be researching Chivalry for us. SS will have Theology soon, but perhaps it would be better for us to have you research it and not give SS anything... I'll ask the builders what they think on that. Techs aren't my thing. - UnOrthOdOx

	30-04-2004 20:49									#44
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Message from Arrian. He needs a response from someone. I'm not sure what the email said and I can't check it until probably tomorrow.

quote: Rhoth, Any thoughts on the comments in the email I sent with the save? -Arrian

And the response I sent back informing him that someone would talk to him...

quote: Hi Arrian, I'm actually trying to drop several of my democracy game responsibilities before burnout. Tabemono is one of those so I didn't pay any attention to this past save. I'll post this question in the forum though so that UnO or one of the others can answer. Regards, Rhoth

	30-04-2004 22:09									#45
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

There was something in the save?

	01-05-2004 00:57									#46
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Whoops, I only glanced at it and forgot about it since I had already gotten the save to my civ directory.

quote: You're up. I've sent Engineering "accepted." Per our deal, please send Feudalism back. Thanks, We have not yet selected our next research, so we will be a full tax for now. But I'd like to figure out who is researching what pretty soon. FYI - I checked on our maximum beaker output. At 90% research (we need some lux spending to stay out of disorder), we produce 149 beakers/turn. We would need subsidization, though, since that produces a hefty deficit. If you guys produce more, maybe you should research and we can kick in cash. Let me know your thoughts. Thanks, -Arrian

I'd say we should be the ones subsidizing them, considering we've been building all markets, plus we still need to go through anarchy. Though they may be in the same boat as far as markets vs libs.

And, err, bleep. Zargon, you didn't forget to include sending Feud in the report, did you?

	01-05-2004 03:07									#47
	Put an end to popups!

quote: And, err, bleep. Zargon, you didn't forget to include sending Feud in the report, did you?

Err... no I didn't forget to include it in the report so much as in the turn. Shoot... I totally forgot about this message too because the save was already in my directory a full 24 hours before we played the turn. Dang. I guess I better write them a letter of apology...

	01-05-2004 09:48									#48
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Oh well. We make a habit of this, and other teams won't see it coming if we ever decide to stiff them.

	04-05-2004 01:55									#49
	Tired of ads?

Email from Cort Haus and my reply:

quote: Cort Haus, We did receive the wonders of Engineering last turn, and I humbly apologize for not having Feudalism for you this turn. It was a gross oversight on my part, and as the turn player I take full responsibility. I guarantee it will be sent this turn, and I stake my favorite Lobster Bib on it Sorry for the mix-up. -ZargonX ----- Original Message ----- From: Cort Haus To: Sarnott ; Rhothaerill ; Panzer32 ; JP Miller ; Jhaddock ; Ben ; UnO Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 2:21 PM Subject: Feudalism Greetings Team Tabemono, We hope Engineering arrived safely last turn. Could you let us know please when will we be recieving Feudalism? We need Invention, so are anxious for the pre-requisite. Many thanks, Cort Haus obo Cake or Death?

	04-05-2004 02:40									#50
	Increase the size of your Attachments

His response:

quote: ZargonX, OK, next turn for Feudalism then . What about research on the next tech? We seek Invention, and can put in 149bpt @ 90% (running a substantial deficit, and needing 10% lux for happiness). If you've already started Invention and have similar max research we could fund you. If your capacity is lower and you haven't started, we could fund you. What do you think? -Cort

	04-05-2004 02:46									#51
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I'm not sure what our capacity is... will need to check. And it will be changing with Rep.

However, combining research sounds nice. We need a frank discussion on Leo's first, though...

	05-05-2004 06:54									#52
	Increase Your PM Length

We can currently put out ~75 bpt. That'll raise in Rep, but A) We'll have an absolutely huge deficit going 0% tax in Rep, B) We'll be going in to anarchy to do it - possibly this turn if there are no objections, see the revolt thread. So, I think they should do the research with us funding.

	05-05-2004 10:14									#53
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by Kloreep We can currently put out ~75 bpt. That'll raise in Rep, but A) We'll have an absolutely huge deficit going 0% tax in Rep, B) We'll be going in to anarchy to do it - possibly this turn if there are no objections, see the revolt thread. So, I think they should do the research with us funding.

Agreed.

	05-05-2004 18:14									#54
	Suffering from ads?

Agreed.

	06-05-2004 04:30									#56
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Proposed message:

quote: As you'll see, we entered anarchy this turn. So you should probably be the one researching Invention. We have some gold built up, however, and can still easily give you 50 gold per turn during our anarchy; probably a little more with some taxmen. That should rise dramatically once we're out of anarchy in about 6 turns.

We're disclosing some of our info, like 6-turn anarchy, but they've been kind enough to tell us their research capacity, so I don't see why we can't respond with some information in kind.

	06-05-2004 23:28									#57
	Remove this text

*bump* We need to send this soon, with the rate of turnplay now out of our control. (Not that I think we were intentionally delaying the last turn... we're just slow these days. )

	06-05-2004 23:30									#58
	Suffering from ads?

Oh, I missed the "proposed" part and thought you already sent it Send away, m'boy, send away!

	06-05-2004 23:41									#59
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Yep, send it.

	08-05-2004 11:28									#60
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Whoops, forgot about this myself. Sent to Arrian and Cort Haus.