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Kloreep
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of the pillow
Jun 2002
time: 00:34
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From Arrian.
quote:
Kloreep,
Thanks for the note. We too are glad that contact has been made with team Tabemono. Our people are rather tired of cake, and are hopeful that trade with the culinary specialists of the world will provide more interesting fare. Was that a suggestion of fruit I saw in your note? *Consider pleasantries inserted*
We are interested in pursuing map and technology trading with you. For instance, if you have the technology known as "construction" we are interested in purchasing it. If you happen to lack Republic, we would be happy to sell that to you.
Regarding map trading, territory map for territory map is probably the easiest. World Map trading brings the question of just how much outside of our respective territories our teams know.
Finally, the subject of contact trading. Let me ask you this: do you have contacts to offer us in exchange?
-Arrian, Executive Transvestite of Cake or Death |
A note: The trade for Construction with Sunshine included a 20 turn NTA. Sunshine started said deal proposal on turn 95, but we then had to put Lit and 50 gold on the table and send accepted on 95; the deal only went through when they accepted the deal on turn 96. So, depending on how you interpret it, we cannot sell Construction until either Turn 115 or Turn 116. Either way, that's over 10 turns away, so we cannot trade Construction to them anytime soon. I suggest we simply inform them our hands are tied on the issue due to the deal we made with Sunshine for it.
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UnOrthOdOx
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Hello....
Jun 2002
time: 22:34
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quote:
UnO,
Thanks for this message.
First, I can say that yes, we do have a complete map of our continent (we are, after all, expansionist ). I will bring your offer back to my team for discussion (such as it is, there aren't many of us) and get back to you.
Though there may be benifits to trading maps, there are also potential drawbacks, as I'm sure you are aware. Secrecy, while it does not help build trust, can be a lifesaver in certain situations. So bear with me on this, ok? Don't get too annoyed if we ponder this one for a little while. If there is a delay, it is not the result of some animosity from my team to yours, but rather the result of caution (even if you may think it overcaution) on our part.
Thanks,
-Arrian |
quote:
Arrian,
I will let you in on something here.
This has become a personal quest, actually. And, once we have contact with Team Monkey, I will be making it QUITE public. You know very well how I get with my personal quests.
I fully understand and respect the feeling of insecurity about the trading of maps. There is little I can do to dissuade the feeling of a need for secrecy. However, you already have suggested a territory map trade. With our galley scouting along the coast and a territory map in hand, there is really little else we would need with the world map for the matter of an invasion should we really choose to, thus the idea that secrecy = security in this instance is really moot, IMO.
I WILL tell you why this is important to me:
Why did the PTWDG die?
Lets face it, activity in all teams is low there.
Why did it die, then? Lack of public information.
Public information brings in new blood. The original SPDG proved that more than anything else.
I believe it was the secrecy coupled with the lack of info that lead to the hard feelings. Keeping the game as open as possible and lighthearted will be essential to maintaining the more laid back and fun attitude here.
Thus, I envision a shared world map. One posted VERY publicly. I already plan on spending a solid day taking screens and forming a mighty world map posted publicly and featured in a news article to promote the game as a whole.
A fair deal for everyone, a FARE Pact signed by all. (Fog and Rebel Extermination Pact) Secrecy is needed, yes. Hidden maps can be usefull, yes. However, IMO in the end such things will lead to destruction of the game as a whole. Let's learn from the past and do this game right and proper.
Again, I am going to be very vocal and very public once we have all contact, which I understand should be very soon. I hope that you can see the reasoning, the fun, and the lack of any malice in reguards to this request. At the end of the day, I'm still a little news boy looking for a creative way to deliver information to the audience.
- UnOrthOdOx |
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UnOrthOdOx
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Hello....
Jun 2002
time: 22:34
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Rhoth, there are many reasons. Bottom line, I get something in my mind, I'm a gonna get it done.
quote:
Interesting, to say the least.
A couple of things:
First, I would not say the ptwdg died. For me, it's still quite alive. GS has been reinvigorated, and though we almost surely cannot win, we're playing it out with gusto. If you mean public forum stuff, well, a bit, and I do think that could be improved upon (I did add a little tidbit of my own recently).
I *do* like the idea of a big publicly posted world map once the world map has been traded around. Public forum lurkers can get an idea of what's going on just from the map. I like that idea quite a bit. Though you are going to run into problems when techs are discovered that reveal major resources... the map will have to do without updating until all teams can see those resources. But anyway, the idea has merit.
As to the timing of trading CoD's world map... well, all I can say is that I have my reasons for at least considering delaying. Even with your galley scouting our coastline. It might not make sense to you right now, which is why I asked you for some patience.
I do know how you get when you go on crusade, and I do not wish to be in opposition, but I MUST act in the best interests of my team, as perceived by the team. If that means holding on to the world map for a while longer, so be it.
However, maybe that won't be the decision. We might decide to just go ahead and do the trade you proposed. All I said was bear with me on this on, and give me a little time.
-Arrian |
I believe there is another landmass off shore from their primary one that these teams are eager to settle before ourselves...
Gut feeling.
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UnOrthOdOx
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Hello....
Jun 2002
time: 22:34
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quote:
Sorry,
I get on kicks now and then.
It has crossed my mind that the most likely reason for holding back WORLD maps at this stage of the game would the that there is likely a landmass other than your main landmass that you are eager to settle.
Judging by various responses and the fact that your own continent has traded maps, I am also surmising that this island is the subject of either a border agreement or a border dispute, and that you fear further parties entering into the fray/beating you to the punch.
As such, I am highly considering recommending further exploration of our western shores, as judging from the minimap this would be the most likely location of such a thing.
Let us assume that I am able to negotiate with the teams on my own continent the following:
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F.A.R.E. Pact: Revision 2, New world (FARE pact 1 was our own continent and joint hunting of barbs)
All nations of either continent agree to trade maps. to facilitate and ease this transaction, Team Tabemono offers their services to be the middle man. All teams will gift their world maps to Tabemono on turn x, and Tabemono will therefore gift their, now complete, map to all teams the following turn.
All nations of a given continent agree that they will not settle in any landmass or island that is newly revealed by this exchange.
**************************
Basically, we won't settle over there, you wont over here.
Would such a thing as this be more likely to succeed?
- UnOrthOdOx |
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UnOrthOdOx
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Hello....
Jun 2002
time: 22:34
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quote:
UnO,
That could be a reason for delaying WM trading. I can neither confirm nor deny it.
There are actually a host of reasons for concealing a WM, UnO. You've thought of a couple, and then sought to argue against them (without knowing whether or not they are applicable to CoD's situation). I understand what you're trying to do, and in your shoes I might be doing the same, but CoD's situation is not the same as Tabemono's situation. Please consider the possibility that we might just have valid reasons for hesitating.
Again, WE HAVE NOT SAID NO. We have asked for you to be just a tad bit patient while we consider it.
You mentioned a pact you had with teams on your continent. Consider that our continent might have similar agreements and perhaps the teams might want to confer amongst themselves regarding this map trading thing. So maybe it's not just CoD discussing internally, eh?
Patience, they say, is a virtue. You and I have been discussing this for 1 day. That's a blink of an eye in a pbem demogame!
-Arrian
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quote:
Arrian,
I am well aware that there are many potential reasons.
I also am well aware that the teams all need to discuss this, this is the reason this will be going VERY public in a very short time. I felt it only fair that I wait until official contact with Team Monkey first. This is a world matter, I am going to make it so.
Please, do not think I am attempting to push a decision on you any sooner than neccessary or is comfortable for your team. What I AM attempting to do is think of all arguments against beforehand so that when you sit down to discuss you are pre-armed with responses instead of needing to seek the answer.
IMO, the game NEEDS this exposure. All teams I have talked to speak of low numbers of active players. Perhaps such a public display, properly advertised, will alleviate that inherent problem.
- UnOrthOdOx |
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UnOrthOdOx
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Hello....
Jun 2002
time: 22:34
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quote:
UnO,
Sorry, I realized that in our flurry of PMs, I didn't actually respond to this, which is distinct from the others regarding map trades.
I'm afraid that CoD must decline your offer. We thank you for your generosity in offering a 2-for-1 deal, but we cannot accept it.
The map trading thing is still a possibility, although probably not right now. We like the overall idea for the future, but have our reasons for not wish to do it yet.
I hope you understand, UnO, that I'm not trying to deliberately obstruct your map crusade. It's all about CoD's best interests.
-Arrian
p.s. By the way, as I'm sure your turn player noticed, we established an embassy with you guys this past turn. HOLY TIGHT CITY SPACING, BATMAN! Considering the girth of your citizenry, one would think more room would be needed |
Is there any rule preventing me from contacting Monkey?
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UnOrthOdOx
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Hello....
Jun 2002
time: 22:34
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quote:
UnO,
Discussion of this topic has continued in the CoD forum.
The long and the short of it is that we've changed our minds. If Tabemono's contact and map trading offers are still on the table, we're interested. However, I would like to negotiate for something extra. A rather, ah, unorthodox agreement, actually. 
We would like to negotiate a "non-intereference pact" with you and the other teams not on our continent. On our side of the ball, there is a specific action we would like to prevent. I imagine, however, that the other teams could think of things they would rather not have CoD (or Python) mucking about in. Perhaps we could come to some sort of agreement?
Do you think your team might be interested?
-Arrian
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quote:
Arrian, I can't speak for all the other teams on my own continent.
As for Tabemono, our interest in your continent is only superficial, and really only involves the maps at this point. Whatever else goes on is of no concern to us at this point. So, yes, a 'no interference' would be acceptable (by this I am assuming it is 'we don't touch your continent, you don't touch ours', correct?). I thought I had put something similar in the original deal, actually, and if not, it was my oversight.
As for the maps, are we talking world or territory now? Either is still on the table. Well, our table is ALWAYS full, actually. On the contacts, 2 for 1 is still on the table somewhere as well, I'll just need to find them in between the racks of ribs.
- UnOrthOdOx |
Maps maps maps 
You'll all get used to my obsessive nature eventually...
Last edited by UnOrthOdOx on 17-03-2004 at 23:23
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UnOrthOdOx
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Hello....
Jun 2002
time: 22:34
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quote:
UnO,
I ask that you please not pass the substance of this message beyond your team for now. I was going to write another vague explanation, but vagueness in the name of secrecy might lead to major problems down the road.
Cake or Death and Python are currently allied against the Monkeys. It is out intention to wipe them out. I won't say more than that until the war is public knowledge.
What I'm aiming at in terms of non-interference is for the other teams to agree not to save Monkey by gifting them a city and warping them halfway around the world. Since Monkey is not a scientific civ, I'm hoping the other teams might be willing to do that in exchange for promises by CoD and Python that we won't do that in the future when war breaks out "over there."
I don't really like the whole "save a civ" thing via city gifting. I know GS condoned it with the Voxodus and then did it ourselves with RP. But I have decided, personally, that I'm against it. If the dying civ can get a settler on a ship and make it to safety, I'm fine with it (and at that point, in my mind, further city gifting so they have more than 1 city is alright*). And if Monkey manages that, good on them, they will have eluded our navy to do it.
But enough of my personal views on the tactic. I don't know what the other teams feel about this issue, so I'm not proposing a rule against the practice at this point - I'm looking at it as "let's make a deal" rather than "let's regulate or ban this." Unless, of course, it suddenly becomes clear that many others want it regulated too.
What do you think about it? If Tabemono likes the idea, then great, and I think we should discuss it with the others (LL, SS, MAST). If your team is against it... well, I'm not sure what CoD will do. We will be back to the drawing board, so to speak, and back there having coughed up information.
I hope this helps explain our hesitation on the contact & map trading issues.
-Arrian
* - In the ptwdg examples, both Vox and RP had a chance at making it to safety with a settler-on-galley. If the Bobians had agreed to host Vox, it was easy to hop across. Even if not, GS's galleys would have had to chase the Vox galley down before it reached Lego. We probably could have, given the Great Lighthouse, but it's no given. RP definitely could have made it, since they had the protection of the GS fleet.
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quote:
I'll have to ask the team, frankly.
PERSONALLY?
Well, let's see, I was the only member NOT on GS to advocate the destruction of Vox. Any question where I stand personally on the gifting/allowing to live bullsh*t? I would be rather violently against it within Tabemono. IMO, their fate is in the hands of the conquerers.
Besides, we likey chopping trees...
Can you say how long we are looking at before their destruction? Roughly that is.
Obviously, this devalues that Monkey contact, though.
In fact, my suspision is that we are close to gaining Monkey contact ourselves since this popped up. (No, I don't mince words and am always this direct)
Haven't checked with team, so this is tentative:
How about : 2 for 1 contact, since this was already on the table. Yes, Tabemono's, we should honor it still, as it was offered. Add on agreement neither team will trade said contacts.
WM for WM, both agree not to trade said WM. Combined, this will keep you as safe from interference as you are currently. Also allows me to begin work on the global public map, which is probably going to take many hours...
Both teams agree not to interfere in the other continent for 50 turns (adjustable) unless specifically asked. This includes gifting of cities in the effort to save a dying civ, but does not include allowing a dying civ to land a galley. |
You guys want my honest opinion at the moment?
I say we work towards a CoD/Python/Tabemono/MAST vs LL/Sunshine (assuming THEY could even work together) Yes, even including giving of land to Python/CoD on our continent. That can be dealt with later by Us/MAST.
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UnOrthOdOx
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Hello....
Jun 2002
time: 22:34
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quote:
UnO,
Good to hear your position on civ-saving and lumberjacks.
I understand that contact with Monkey is devalued if we destroy them. I'm sure, however, that they would argue that their destruction is not certain. They do, after all, have their Numidians, and skilled players to use them. Also, the CoD/Python alliance has encountered a certain problem we did not anticipate that may hurt us. Once you have a good hard look at our WM, you will understand (well, maybe you will). I'll leave that as a teaser.
I honestly don't know how long it will take to kill them. That depends on too many factors. I will admit that we have revisited this idea partly because we do not believe we can possibly wipe them out them before you make contact with them. Galleys move 3 tiles per turn, land forces at war march 1 tile at a time.
I wouldn't say that contact is imminent. We're not sure, actually. If Monkey has a galley moving in your direction, if could be really soon. If not, it will take a little while yet (let's say more than 5 turns, but likely less than 10). We have a galley sailing along LL's coast, so it's possible we could bump into SS or MAST soon too, though of course I don't know since I don't know the geography.
The other reasons I have for coming back to the contact/map trades are: 1) I like your idea for the public world map, and 2) Beta is chomping at the bit to start public forum posts based around the idea of "S.P.A.M." - the Society to Prevent Agression against Monkeys. I felt like a real killjoy when I told him CoD preferred he not start with that because it would tip off the rest of the world to something they didn't know yet. He understood, which was good of him, but I think that + your map thing could really liven up the public forum (even if the S.P.A.M. campaign is going to paint CoD as a bunch of evil bastards).
Regarding your suggested trade terms, I like the contact trading w/no-trade clause and the non-interference for 50 turns provision.
The WM for WM with a no-trade clause could be a problem, though. Do you have maps from SS, MAST and LL? We have Python and Monkey's maps. At this point Python and CoD are exchanging maps consistently - we're allies in a war after all. There are two problems I see for us here. First, I'm not sure how Python will feel about CoD trading their map away for stuff that Python doesn't get to see. How will LL, SS, and/or MAST feel about that? Second, if we agree to the no-trade clause, we can't trade WMs with our ally.
Were you including the no-trade on maps for your own reasons, or because you thought we would want one? Frankly, the map probably won't help other teams gain contact, since even without it you can tell them Monkey is south of us, and I figure LL knows that by now too.
Please take that back to your team for formal discussion. I will do the same. I'm pretty sure the other Izzardians will agree, though.
Oh, also, what are Tabemono's wants and needs in the tech race at this point? CoD is currently researching Engineering. What are you up to, and might you want to trade?
-Arrian |
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UnOrthOdOx
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Hello....
Jun 2002
time: 22:34
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quote:
Arrian,
I thought you guys would want the no-map trading. You should know my position is to get the public map ASAP. Yes, we have everyone's maps as well.
So, Contacts for contact, no trading, no interference for 50 turns. WM for WM, trading allowed.
On the tech front, I'll have to let the tech experts tell me what we want. My philosophy is not exactly the same as the team has decided upon. Far from it, actually.
We are currently researching Feudalism, but I don't have an ETA at the moment due to having not opened the save in a little while. Chances are, though, you will be able to supply it before the locals IIRC, but that is a whole discussion of it's own. I can tell you we do not CURRENTLY have a deal for Engineering, but are in negotiations. I'm not sure, we might have something else of value to you as well tech wise, have to open the save.
Tech is really not my "thing", and Kloreep is absent for a few days, so I'll have to let the others comment more specifically on that.
- UnOrthOdOx. |
MAPS! 
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UnOrthOdOx
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Hello....
Jun 2002
time: 22:34
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quote:
UnO,
The tech points thing works fine if both teams are researching (really researching) and there is a no-trade clause involved for the tech you receive.
That way you don't have the middle man effect - where the tech you worked so hard to research gets sold on for a pittance. CoD has been operating with its neighbors with the understanding that if a team researches a particular tech, it has exclusive rights to trade that tech.
In fact, when we first got contact with Latin Lover, we noticed we had Literature and they didn't. We did not even mention that to them for a potential deal, because Monkey had researched Lit. It's theirs to sell on. It is my intention to honor that, even though we're trying to kill them (it is indeed possible that I'm taking that too far).
If I recall correctly, the entry level medieval techs are 32 (feudalism), and 36 each (Monotheism, Engineering).
What I'd like to do is work things out so that Python is included in whatever tech dealing we do - either as researchers themselves, or as contributers of gold so that others may research faster. CoD has had a great tech trading relationship with Python, and I've little desire to leave them out in the cold. They are currently switching governments, and don't yet have a feel for what their gold/beaker output will be in republic.
Can you get me an ETA next time you guys play the save? I will look into our ETA for Engineering (and at this point, I may well slow it down!). I think it's ~12 turns.
Once I have a feel for how long it will be before you have feudalism, it will be easier to decide what we want to do. We may decide to split the cost of Engineering with Python (them giving us gold equivalent to 1/2 the beaker cost), and then research Monotheism, and revist trading at a later date (this would be if your ETA is like 30 turns). Or we might get Engineering and shut off research & rake in cash for a bit while we wait for you guys to finish feudalism (if your ETA is more like 20 turns, this could be attractive).
-Arrian
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quote:
Arrian,
I must ask that you not relay the following information outside your own team for now.
You guys are a bunch of slow pokes! 20 turns? 30 turns? I knew we weren't THAT far out. No, my friend, we finish Feudalism in 3 turns. However, if you stay on the 12-turn schedule, you may well still beat the locals at being able to supply Feudalism, I'll have to check. However, what you want to cover that 4 point discrepency may determine which way we lean on that, at the same time, we would essentially be giving it to two teams here as well.
Perhaps a deal can be worked where we are also allowed to trade Engineering to a single team on our side, and we compensate you in gold for the 4 points?
On the other deal, Tabemono agrees to the contact and map trades as offered with no trading of the Monkey contact. In fact, you will find them offered as unaccepted in the upcoming save.
- UnOrthOdOx |
"where the tech you worked so hard to research gets sold on for a pittance."
 and I know EXACTLY what instance he is referring to...
ah...good times in the GoW. That was one GF and I arranged.
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UnOrthOdOx
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Hello....
Jun 2002
time: 22:34
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quote:
UnO,
Good news about the contact & map trades & non-intervention agreement. CoD is in favor as well. One question: is there an expiration date on the contact no-trade, or are we going to stick to that forever?
Yes, our continent was slower on tech. Only 3 teams, and ALL of them commercial! Two of three commercial/industrious. That seriously hurt us in opening trading. Everyone started with alphabet, and two of three with masonry. Pottery isn't exactly a big boost either. We will catch up, though, I think. It might just take a while. We have some jungle to deal with (not to mention an infestation of Monkeys). We're paying a lot for our army of workers, let alone our combat troops.
I was hoping to discuss your Feudalism ETA with Python, but of course will not pass on the info if you don't want us to. Our ETA for Engineering is 11 turns. Please also don't pass that on.
Can I at least say something like "by the time we have Engineering, they will have Feudalism" to Python?
As for trade terms... hmm.
I would propose that we trade the two techs and each of us can pass them on to 1 other team (for us, it would obviously be Python). The 4-point difference in research cost could simply be put off to the future, should we do a deal where you had researched the a expensive tech than we did.
-Arrian
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quote:
Arrian on the contacts,
We will not trade the Monkey contact, until you give the OK. As I am now beginning to understand the situation over there, I will respect your privacy there. I'll get back to you on allowing you to trade SS and MAST to Python. I would prefer that they offer us some compensation for them, however.
On the ETA, and it's info, if you can keep it on your side of the water, that is all we ask. Or, wait until we actually have it to discuss it since it will become apparant to anyone paying any attention we have it at that time anyway.
On the trading of the tech, we here in Tabemono would choose Sunshine to trade Engineering to, however, we are not as fortunate as your side in having a dedicated partner. This is tentative, I'm fairly sure I can convince my team of the wisdom, though. Would it be possible to get an agreement that you not offer it to Sunshine?
Lets see, formalized..
Tabemono would gift Feudalism as soon as it is discovered, as well as promise to not offer Feudalism to Monkey, and allows CoD to trade Feudalism to Python, thus may it assist in your Monkey infestation...
In return, CoD gifts Engineering as soon as it's discovered and agrees not to offer it in trade to Sunshine.
Looks good to me, I'll ask the team, but am fairly sure they will agree. (or I'll whip out my club and beat them into it)
What says CoD?
-UnOrthOdOx |
Hot DAMN!
My fellow Tabemono's I may have just negotiated us the exclusive rights to trade Engineering to Sunshine, BEFORE LL will even have it, if we all agree to this.
IMO this is a good deal, but will respect the teams decision.
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UnOrthOdOx
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Hello....
Jun 2002
time: 22:34
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quote:
UnO,
Fine by me on contact trading. We won't pass on contacts w/o permission from you, and vice-versa.
On the tech trading... well, actually it might be best to hold off on giving us Feudalism, since the more civs have it, the lower the research costs will be for others. We actually have no pressing need for feudalism, believe it or not.
What about this:
In 11 turns, you send us Feudalism, accepted.
We will send back Engineering, accepted.
We may give Feudalism to Python then, or we may hold it for a bit. You can pass Engineering to SS immediately if you wish.
That way, we keep the research cost of feudalism fairly high, but CoD doesn't miss a beat should we wish to go for Invention after Engineering.
Of course, I'm interested to know what SS, MAST and LL are researching. One is doing engineering, right? So surely somebody is working on Monotheism. Hmm, would that be SS?
-Arrian |
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UnOrthOdOx
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Hello....
Jun 2002
time: 22:34
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Yes, Rhoth, my thoughts as well. We could possibly gain Theology from SS with that Engineering too.
Anyway, hope this is not being too forward for all of you, I figured they'ld find out eventually anyway, but it paid off as well.
quote:
Here's the full situation on our side of the water:
SS got Mono as their free tech, they are on Theology, no ETA known... We had a deal for Feudalism + compensation for Monarchy, they are now trying to back out. They refuse to assist anyone in offensive operations, so are useless as an ally, and we suspect they've been researching for LL through the ancient age.
MAST got royally screwed by Panzer on the map, you'll soon see, they are not in the tech race, and even lack Iron so are of no use as a military partner unless we could somehow hook them up.
LL is min-researching Engineering. Specialist even...
Just entered Anarchy, we suspect Legions as soon as that's over, but will have pikes, med inf, and cats waiting for them. Initial estimates number upwards of 60, though. We also suspect a prebuild for Leo's. Have terrifying RCP core, land made PERFECT for it.
Our land is a damn doughnut. Inland sea prevents the best use of land. Have a border deal with SS, and am preparing for what is bound to be an impending invasion on either us or MAST by LL. Probably us as there is little value in MAST lands. I think they just realized we've made their invasion plans allot more difficult, though, as they have just contacted us for negotiations for the first time in a very long time and have started pumping settlers again.
So, I was thinking of proposing a tech alliance between us. CoD, Python, and Tabemono, to gain a tech advantage. |
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UnOrthOdOx
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Hello....
Jun 2002
time: 22:34
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quote:
Wow, UnO, thanks for the info. A tech alliance sounds good to me. I like those, since it helps one plan in advance.
LL is scary on the powergraph... I figured they got a settler from a hut. They seem to be the big dog that may need to be contained. I wish you luck if they come after you. Legions are nasty. Gotta get those Riders, then, eh? Speaking of which, do you intend Chivalry to be your next research?
Interesting about SS. I had forgotten what civ they were. Got Monotheism for free, did they? Hmm. Are you sure they're really sticking with the happy-go-lucky roleplay, or could it just be an act?
MAST sounds kinda like Monkey over here. Of the three of us, Monkey clearly got the worst land. You will see soon enough. Python and CoD both got river starts, whereas Monkey has a 1-tile lake. All three used RCP, though Python and Monkey are using tighter spacing than CoD. Python has good land for their inner core, but we were really close to their south, and to their north/northeast is crap tundra and mountains. CoD probably has the best land of all three, especially once we do some more jungle chopping. But we're hampered by our lack of industrious workers, and the lack of a single discounted building. Ah, how sweet it is being English.
The strike on Monkey was Python's idea. They figured they didn't have enough room and needed to conquer someone. Plus, I think they just decided that peaceful trading was boring. I guess they figured hitting their good friend and neighbor, CoD, wouldn't be fun, so they convinced us to assist in a hit on Monkey instead. We weren't really in a position to refuse. Had we refused, perhaps the logical (and easier) choice would have prevailed, and we would currently find ourselves being crushed.
You're going to see this when you get the map anyway, so here goes: our continent no longer has any iron. Python used to have one, which they shared with us, but 2 turns before we were to do our mass warrior upgrade, the damned thing depleted. We have our horsemen, thank goodness, but our battle effectiveness took a big hit when the iron went bye-bye. We now must hope that Python's stack of doom (which is quite impressive) and our horsemen can do the job.
Where did that iron go, I wonder? Did you guys see a new source pop up a few turns ago? I thought that when there was a depletion, a new source always appeared somewhere else. Anyway, I'm staggered that a continent the size of ours has the resource situation it does. Zero iron, 1 horse. 1 more horse on an offshore island (likely Monkey's last refuge). It's quite frustrating, actually. The continent is massive, and has tons of hills and mountains. At least this means monkey has no iron either.
Having explained that, now hopefully you understand why we hestitated about map trading. Once that map goes around, the world will know that Comedia (our continent) lacks the single most important strategic resource in the game. Obviously, we are quite worried about the prospect of invasion from Latin Lover. Hey, we have something in common! We've invested in our navy, so hopefully we could sink a LL invasion force before it landed. Hopefully.
Please do not pass any of this on to Monkey (or anyone else, for that matter) when you meet them. If they haven't noticed the iron depletion, great. Though I suspect they have.
Well, now we know a lot more about each other. I hope that breeds trust. CoD will probably not, unfortunately, be able to assist militarily should LL come after you. But there are other means of assistance, and given LL's power, I think we'd be interested in helping somehow. Give a shout if and when the fit hits the shan.
-Arrian
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01-03-2004 10:43
*insert pleasantries here 
I just get obsessed over wierd things like this...you'll get used to it.
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