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Arrian
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Kneel before Grog!
Jul 2001
time: 00:34
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Outbound to Tabemono (UnO and Kloreep):
quote:
Hey there, gluttonous fiends... errr... friends! I just wanted to finalize our deal for Invention research.
We are currently researching Invention at 8 turn pace. Our beaker output this turn was 147. Divided into thirds (us, you, python), that's 49 beakers/turn. So, if you could send us 49 gold per turn, that will cover the research costs nicely. If we get a devaluation from another team getting the tech first, and/or if we can turn down research on the final turn (likely), we will refund whatever is appropriate.
One question that I'm not sure how to answer is what to do regarding trades to other teams. I don't expect there will be many opportunities to sell Invention to MAST, SS or LL, but you never know. If that happens, perhaps we can agree that any sale made must be for cash, and the cash will be split 3 ways?
Thoughts, comments?
-Arrian |
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Arrian
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Kneel before Grog!
Jul 2001
time: 00:34
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Semi-off topic exchange with UnO:
quote:
Just a personal note about sorry for being caught up in RL stuff lately.
I've seen several screwups in the team forum. All I can say is that they are all do to my inactivity as I was the one nailing down all that stuff for the team.
On the domestic front, talks with LL have all but ceased. They have continually lied to me and claimed it as an interpretation problem. I'm sorry, but WIA speaks perfect english, and from what I've read between the lines, no one else on the team even wants to be talking to us.
Chances are MAST is with LL, and possibly SS as well.
How goes the monkey mashing?
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quote:
It happens to all of us. I haven't been very active lately either. I'm lucky enough to have Cort Haus there to keep things working properly even if I'm slacking.
Sorry to hear that about LL. I just sent a followup PM to Kloreep about them, actually: they are trying to buy Feudalism from Python. Python asked us what to do, and I've told them not to sell it, since it is Tabemono's tech to sell. Good luck. I wouldn't be surprised if you had a stack of Legions/Med Inf to deal with soon.
Monkey mashing proceeds slowly. Our glorious navy did score a victory recently (we sank a galley w/o hitpoint loss, which was a nice bit of luck). Python's land forces are doing the real heavy lifting right now. We've switched production to archers in anticipation of Invention, hoping that those crappy Longbowmen I laugh at the AI for using in SP will finally break Monkey.
-Arrian |
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Mountain Sage
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Well, yes, and their arrows just puched through all the plate knights had to carry, warped shoulders and all. At least not many of them came to suffer from arthritis in their old age... (dead before).
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Arrian
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Kneel before Grog!
Jul 2001
time: 00:34
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Kloreep's response, and my response to that:
quote:
[quote]
Me, Zargon, or Sharpe are your best bets for diplo right now; hopefully UnO will be able to be more active again once he's less busy in RL.
We don't have an embassy. It's possible we could establish one for that purpose; I'll check with my team if we're interested. You'd be willing to pay the extra cost?
Also, one thing I see unresolved (from a while ago!  ) looking at our diplo thread is what to do once Invention is researched. We're thinking we should split up trading rights as evenly as we can; we get the rights to trade it to certain team(s), you get the rights to trade it to the others. |
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quote:
Damn. I was hoping you had already established the embassy, and then we could just pay for the investigation itself. Can you do me a favor and check how much the embassy would cost? Depending on how much, maybe we could split the cost of the embassy and then we would pay the entire cost of the city investigation?
Re: invention trades... actually, I see two ways it could go:
1) your suggestion
2) one team brokers the tech, and we divide the spoils evenly (perhaps with a slight bonus for the civ that does the legwork) between us.
I like #2, although it only really works if we sell Invention for cash. The problem with your proposal is that we don't know which civs will even want to buy Invention from us - they may already have deals set up. It may be we can only find one buyer. One major thing: the LAST thing I want is for Monkey to get it. We're having enough trouble as it is. Frankly, I wouldn't mind if it doesn't get sold at all. But if it does, let's try for a standard 20-turn no-trade, ok?
Let me know what you think.
Thanks,
-Arrian |
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Arrian
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Kneel before Grog!
Jul 2001
time: 00:34
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quote:
On the embassy: I'm not sure about splitting the cost, we frankly don't have any use for it. :/
I checked 130 BC and an embassy would have cost 99 gold then. Prosumably that won't change in 110 BC unless Primate Central is no longer size 7. No idea what any other investigations would cost until the embassy is established, of course.
Re: invention, I think we'd prefer #1. I'm sure we would agree to demand a no-trading-to-Monkey (and any teams you have the sales rights to in general) in any Invention deal we struck with someone.
Looking at our records, we've payed you 300 gold, about 2/7ths of the cost of Invention. I'm not sure how much we'll finish up with; when's your ETA?
Speaking of which, we're now in Rep, so we could pay you more now. We can raise payments to 80 gold or so a turn now. Does that sound good?
-Kloreep
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Arg. My response:
quote:
Kloreep,
I'll take the embassy thing back to my team and get back to you.
Regarding invention... who are you going to sell it to anyway? Removing Monkey, that leaves SS, MAST & LL. I was under the impression that one or more of those teams had a tech lead, and therefore might get Invention on their own. The list of potential buyers is short to say the least. So assigning rights to trade - say Python to SS, CoD to MAST and you guys to LL - is very likely to end up screwing one or two of us when it turns out only one team even wants to buy invention. We really should try and figure out what the other teams are doing, to assess what the trade market looks like. If there really are 3 buyers, then your proposal may work. If there aren't, it really can't.
Regarding payments... well, the objective is to have you guys fund exactly 1/3 of the research cost, and I thought we calculated that ahead of time, so there shouldn't be any need to increase your payments. IIRC, we are within a couple of turns of discovering Invention.
Which brings up another topic: what to research next and who is to do it. CoD is fine with continuing to be the researcher, but now that you're in republic we might want to re-evaluate that. Let's check our team's beaker power again: what is the maximum beakers per turn you guys can muster, taking only happiness into account? I'll look into the same question for CoD. However is highest should research the next tech.
Or we could both do research... it kinda depends on what's going on with the other teams. I haven't heard ANYTHING from the other teams. IIRC, Krill sent out notes asking about tech trades & research, and received no response. Have you guys heard anything?
-Arrian |
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Arrian
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Kneel before Grog!
Jul 2001
time: 00:34
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To Kloreep:
quote:
Kloreep,
Cort sent a note with the save, and I'd like to add a couple of things to that.
First, with the completion of Invention, we really need to come to an agreement regarding the sale of that tech to other teams. As you know, CoD would very much prefer to have one team sell it and split the costs more-or-less evenly.
Second, we need to decide on future research and who is doing what. Last turn, our max beaker output was 156 beakers/turn. What is Tabemono's max output?
We obviously really want gunpowder, so that's the tech we're inclined to research next. The question is whether you wish to approach this the same way we approached invention, splitting the cost 3 ways, or whether you would like to research another tech while we're doing gunpowder? Depending on the answer, we can figure out how Python can best help (I'm thinking they provide funds to the researcher or researchers like before).
-Arrian |
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Arrian
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Kneel before Grog!
Jul 2001
time: 00:34
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From UnO, and my response to him:
quote:
Seems things have been a bit slow in my absense, huh?
How goes the monkey squashing?
I'll have to defer to Kloreep on the beaker count and such. Personally I'll advocate your 'one team sell and split profit' approach to the techs.
I'll be fairly active for the next week, then it's off on a week's vacation minus internet access.
Speaking of which...
Would you care to take a PBEM of mine for that time?
I'm in 2 active ones at present.
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quote:
UnO,
Good to hear from you.
Monkey squashing has halted for the moment, awaiting longbows.
I'm glad you and I are on the same page on selling Invention. Hopefully you can get Kloreep & others to see the value in that approach? 
Let's see if we can get a few things done before you go away, then. Like finalize how we're going to sell Invention, and what is to be done about future research.
I'm not the guy you want for your PBEM's, sorry. I'm almost never online from home, where I have access to civ. I've got other stuff going on. I'm a decent demogame planner, but nearly useless as a turnplayer.
-Arrian |
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Arrian
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Kneel before Grog!
Jul 2001
time: 00:34
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More messages back & forth with UnO. I'll say this: when UnO decides things are going to get done, things get done. I like that.
quote:
Arrian, CoD,
In an attempt to get as many things diplomatically set as possible for my upcomming vacation, I'm pushing things a bit to get it all done before I leave next week.
On the issue of capabilities, the techies inform me that we are currently able to produce 161 Beakers at a 91 GPT deficit. However, they assure me that our ample food gathering skills coupled with courthouses soo to be finished will push that number up sooner rather than later. Gunpowder would be a most beneficial tech to us as well, and I believe we would be more than willing to research it ASAP with funding. Sometimes the food nazi's(tm) don't agree with me on these things, though, and I will have a team answer soon.
On the issue of trading, some have expressed concern with trading Invention. Most particularly to Latin Lovers. Myself, I do not share that trepidation and some discussion is ongoing at present.
UnOrthOdOx
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quote:
UnO,
Good to hear back from you. It appears our research abilities are roughly even. Our economy is about to jump a bit soon too, due to domestic improvements of our own (jungle chopping is proceeding well). I guess it's a tossup as to which one of us researches gunpowder. It doesn't really matter to me. If all things are equal, maybe we should go with you, in case WW kicks in for us and we have to go up to 20% lux spending.
We also might want to consider having both CoD and Tabemono research techs, with Python funding both of us. I guess that depends on what we can do on the trade front (what's the deal with the other side of the tech tree - Monotheism and beyond?). What do you think? 1 researcher, or 2?
-Arrian |
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Cort Haus
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London
Apr 2002
time: 05:34
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quote:
Kloreep,
Sorry I didn't reply on this at the time- I missed this email and only just found it.
Had I seen this we probably wouldn't have started Monotheism and would be now sending you gold to enable max pace research on GP, which we're keen on getting sooner rather than later.
So either we break off Monotheism research for now, or, if Python can send you enough gold to allow max research, that can include their cash contribution for Monotheism to you instead of us, and we'll supply Monotheism as part payment for GP, with a cash balancer afterwards depending on the research cost of GP.
Therfore,
if GP costs 1300 beakers to research, that's 433 each. Mono will cost 630 beakers to research, or 210 each.
Therfore,
CoD pay 433g to Tabemono for GP,
Tabemono pay 210g to CoD for Mono,
net = CoD pay 223g to Tabemono.
Python pay 433g to Tabemono for GP and 210g to CoD
The amount the Python would owe CoD is close to what CoD would owe Tabemono, so if Python could manage to pay their third of GP and their third of Mono (433 + 210 = 643) to Tabemono, then CoD pay the balance of 23g to Tabemono, and all 3 teams get both techs, and quickly. It all depends on whether Python can spare what's needed to cover Tabemono's deficit. CoD estimated they could get GP in 12 turns at max (90%) research, and at that time Tabemono estimated a higher research capability, so a similar or better time-frame would be likely at max power.
I've posted this idea in our own forum and will send it on to Python too, and we'll see what everybody says.
Regards,
Cort
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12-05-2004 12:17
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