 |
| |
|
|
David Floyd
|
|
The bottom of a large bottle of beer
Jan 1970
time: 05:34
|
|
quote:
Conservatives see rights as existing from outside society, |
Well, in that case, stop taking my money for "defense", and stop telling gays what they can and can't do together.
Come on, BK. Conservatives don't believe that any more than liberals do. I believe it, but you don't.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
David Floyd
|
|
The bottom of a large bottle of beer
Jan 1970
time: 05:34
|
|
quote:
DUDE! He believes rights exist from God... that's as outside society as you can get! |
Fine, but he doesn't consistently apply them. And besides, his point was about "conservatives" not "Ben Kenobi".
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Rex Little
|
|
Slight nitpick: isn't Andrea Dworkin a "she"?
|
|
| |
|
|
|
shawnmmcc
|
|
My personel definition of right and left wing - each wants to use legislation to impose their version of "right" or "morality" on personal behavior, i.e. those acts that do not directly impact another individual. Of course those people involved then make the claim that the animal or the fertilized ovum has rights that trump the people upon whom the right or left winger is attempting to impose their "approved" behaviors.
The thing I find terribly amusing about both groups is how they cry "foul" when their opposites successfully use the legislative process to impose their agenda on them. BOTH groups have declared that is an acceptable use of the legislative process, so if somebody manages to manipulate it better they throw a temper tantrum without realizing that once you make that use/abuse of legislation and individual rights acceptable, you set the stage for somebody to do it to you (compel you to conform to a behavior you disagree with via force of law and/or threat of imprisonment).
It's why I've become a social libetarian. If you want to state that you will not use a cure for Alzheimers if it involves cloned stem cells using the patient's nuclei and fetal stem cells, go ahead. Similarly, if you don't want to use drugs that were tested using animals, fine. Just don't try to pass laws shoving YOUR choice down my throat. It's also amusing, many of those who are most strident suddenly take a different view if it's their loved one; parent, spouse, or child. It's why I respect Christian Scientists. They are willing to die for their beliefs. I think they're crazy, but I still respect them. I find in general very few of those who want to use legislation to cram their values down my throat having the same level of dedication and commitment.
|
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
|
shawnmmcc
|
|
BK, at that point your action directly affects me, and I believe in this individual named Descartes - I think, therefor I am. Your argument is a false analogy at best, a red herring (or a troll) at worst - a frozen embryo that is surplus and will not be used, and with prior approval of the parents, i.e. the standards imposed in Britian for harvesting embryonic stem cells, works quite nicely.
As a better analogy, if I am brain dead and being kept alive on a ventilator, I have asked them to harvest my organs - it almost happened to me, I had an adult tonsillectomy in small West Virginia town and hemorrhaged, lost 2 liters of blood and they put the IV THROUGH my vein when the nursing staff panicked. It didn't help that I was the young Canadian doctor's first bleeder. Woke up the next morning in intensive care.
I felt like someone dancing on my grave when, one month later, I watched them take the coolers out onto the ramp at the airport I was based at - organ runs. I almost was carted off the same way. I STILL am an organ donor, though. While you may argue whether the frozen blastulas (the stage if I remember correctly they freeze the developing egg) can give consent, the parents can, and since at that point the blastula cannot develop further - they are surplus and will never be implanted. It's loosely analagous to my being an organ donor, and legally in practically the same, at least in GB.
Remember one thing, Ben. Do you want the Catholic Church, Southern Baptist Convention, Mormons, or Muslims, writing our laws and codes of conduct, just to name a few groups very comfortable with the such activity. In fact Islam states that non-Muslims should be content to live under Sharia because it is righteous and derives from God - which by the way has come up with a generally agreed consensus (they are called a Fatwa, or didn't you know?) that the fetus does not become a child until after 100 days  . You disagree? Exactly my point.
Beware of tramping on the laws that protect me from your religious beliefs, because in tearing them down you may find others exploiting them and imposing their religious beliefs on you - for example, Islam forbidding you to proselytize. I know you can't see it, but look at other parts of the world and then tell me it cannot happen here. That's what they said in Germany in the 1930's.
|
|
| |
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:34.
Apolyton Time is 00:34. |
top of page
|
| archivepost |
|
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
|
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
|
|
|
|
|
|
03-03-2004 09:51
Fez and BK in the same thread... I don't think it's even worth bothering... Besides, who could possibly counter such well-informed killer arguments like:
|