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Boris Godunov
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Portland, OR
Aug 2001
time: 00:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Giancarlo
What about the possible diseases you can get from eating vegetables? Such as ones you can get from say unclean vegetables? That is always a possibility. Amoebas? |
Fezzie, this is pretty funny. You DO realize that your body is full of Amoebas no matter what you eat? Worse still, it's full of bacteria! Oooooh! Of course, that will always be the case.
quote:
I have heard that vegans can get sicker easier too. |
First, I'm talking vegetarians, not vegans. And second, I've never heard this being substantiated, speaking of unsubstantiated claims. I've been a vegetarian for over 4 years, and in that time I've noticed I've never gotten the flu and have gotten a cold maybe once a year at the most. This is very different from when I was an omnivore, when I would get colds 3-4 times a year, easily. I've never read any scientific study that's made the claim vegans or vegetarians get sick more often than omnivores.
quote:
All you have to do is cook meats properly. Many people have it medium rare. But no unsubstantiated claims will stop me from eating meat. |
No one is trying to get you to stop eating meat--it's very much a personal choice about health and diet. I was simply refuting the notion that being vegetarian for health reasons was "idiotic." It is no more idiotic than exercising regularly for health reasons.
And cooking meats properly doesn't eliminate all the potential health concerns. You can eat a steak that's charred and you still have the cholesterol, fat and trans-fatty acids that are not good for you. Not to mention whatever hormones are in the meat thanks to the methods of rearing livestock.
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shawnmmcc
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UR, thank you. Your statementquote:
quote:quote:
Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
The argument is not because of what we see in the one embryo, that all the others should live, but that we should not kill the one, because of what we know about all the other embryos.
What on earth are you talking about? What do we know about all these other embryos other than they are lumps of cells? |
Ben, that is why I infer, rightly as I happen to know from you other posts, that your "embyro is a person arguments" are based on a series of moral, versus ethical, arguments. The problem is that morality, per se, is virtually always based on a series of "truths" accepted as such per se. Typically from a religious derivation.
Ethics is based purely on self-consistency. Peope have hidden behind ethics to justify unethical behavior, but as I've said, the Free Market Darwinist would think "that's different" when he's getting beaten to a pulp by a mugger. The "that's different" is a good rule of thumb seperating out pseudo-ethical claims.
BK, you did not at all deal with my dual arguments with Sharia. It's based on the same God, and the same Old Testament, it's simple an argument over the final word and the status of individuals who brought God's word to earth. First, they DISAGREE with you, and have Fatwa's, to show their rightness (read morality). Plus, except for a minority Islam would very happily impose Sharia on you. Since it's morally based, of course you wouldn't mind?
Which makes my point, which is more for fellow readers than for you. You simply are incapable of comprehending that possible result. I will grant you BK that you would not knuckle under to the Sharia, and would die a martyr rather passively accept it. Me, I would join the guerillas, but I would rather keep mechanisms in place that would prevent this from ever happening. In pre-Nazi Germany (Weimer Republic) their constitution had this massive loophole (Orginally put in there, if memory serves me correctly, in case of emergencies) that let the Nazis take over. I just wish you could see it.
As another aside, Ben, if you worked as a big brother, you could probably help an adolescent who is at high risk - drugs/crime/early sex - and do more to cut the abortion rate than your protesting. Just a thought? Maybe do both! If you set a good example, you may have a fellow Mennonite. Do it two or three times, and then have each of them do it....
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shawnmmcc
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Vegetarianism and Animal Rights
Vegetarianism is healthier than the standard US diet, it is not intrinsically healthier, you can have a low-fat high vegatable diet that is just as healthy. However, you meat intake will be heavily limited, and for carnivorous types they might feel they are being vegan.
Vegetarian diets are healthy because they have typically come from traditions where the extra food comes from vegetables, not grains. You have very plump vegetarians in certain countries with a long tradition where they've figured out how to cook delicious, fattening vegan food - just look at India.
Most vegan diets are rough on pregnant women and children. It's harder to get the protein/fat density outside of animal protein/diary/eggs. It's NOT impossible by any stretch, but it is harder. My wife would be a vegan except that she's still nursing, and the fact that she really doesn't like to cook. Since I do the cooking, we are neither vegan nor Kosher. If she wants to put out the effort and fix balanced vegan meals, I'll smile and clean the dishes. 
The problem for children is that a high protein - moderate fat diet produces bigger children. It's been seen all accross Asia when western style food was introduced. The problem with western children is that with the spread of video activities and the reduction in physical fitness in schools, they aren't active enough to eat such a diet healthily. America's obesity problem is a combo of junk food, lack of physical exercise, and people staring at a screen (as the poster looks at his screen and then his tummy  ).
The problem that you face with the healthy western diet - call it pre-McDonalds, is that given the factors above, eventually it will bite you as an adult. We cannot maintain that level of activity - age, commitments, etc. and eventually we need to switch to a vegan or near vegan diet for optimal health. Since food choices and preferences are developed primarily as a child, this creates a real problem.
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04-03-2004 17:11
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