04-03-2004 22:20									#1
	black-clicking to find cities Tired of ads?

Probably many, or even most, of you already know this. But it occurred to me that I have never seen reference to it, so I thought I'd note a useful cheat for those who like them.

As most everyone knows, you can locate land masses by black-clicking in the "view" mode and looking at the continent number next to the graph coordinates.

When you black-click, the map centers itself on your click. But if you click on a city square, the map does not center itself. Thus, if you black-click all over the place, you can locate cities by noting which square you clicked on without the map jumping.

I suppose this could be quite handy in MP, where locating your enemy early is vitally useful.

	05-03-2004 11:34									#2
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If you are desparate to know where the other land masses are and where the other cities are, you can always go into cheat mode and reveal the map.

RJM at Sleeper's

	05-03-2004 13:08									#3
	Tired of ads?

There's no need to be rude. I acknowledged it as a cheat for those who like them. I don't use it myself, but plenty of people don't think it's cheating to use the tricks that the game allows.

	05-03-2004 19:26									#4
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On a similar note, I have never seen it noted that if you double click on portions of the map that you have revealed (land or water), it opens up the terrain description, unless there is a unit/city there (visible to you or not), in which case it won't tell the terrain description (but tells you there is a unit/city). Can be useful to tell you where that newly founded city of your enemy is, or where they are advancing their units.

* Sparrowhawk likely pointing out what is obvious to everyone else

Edit: After posting this I realized I didn't want to look completely foolish so I went and checked Ming's list of cheats in the Great Library. This one is listed here, but only to find cities, and only on land. It can also be used to find units on both land and water. (but there is no way to know if it is a city or a unit that you have found).

Last edited by Sparrowhawk on 05-03-2004 at 19:38

	05-03-2004 23:20									#5
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I never left-click on unknown area. I only right-click if I want to center map: the reason is that I don't launch the bug in error.
Similarly I never double-click on an unknown area.

	06-03-2004 00:09									#6
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"Launch the bug?"

	06-03-2004 04:56									#7
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It's a bug if you don't use it; oterwise, it is a feature.

It's just a game, let's remember. This "my gameplay is more pure than yours" sounds like a religious discussion. I think it is cool how much "we" have discovered about Civ. just enjoy!!

Monk

	06-03-2004 05:46									#8
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Does the bug/feature only happen with left-clicking? I thought it happened with left or right.

	06-03-2004 12:25									#9
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quote: Originally posted by debeest There's no need to be rude. I acknowledged it as a cheat for those who like them. I don't use it myself, but plenty of people don't think it's cheating to use the tricks that the game allows.

My comment was intended to be robust rather than rude. If I offended you then I apologise.

My personal choice continues to be not using black clicking or hut finder or similar aids.

RJM at Sleeper's

	06-03-2004 18:08									#10
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I prefer 'nearest city' scouting.

	06-03-2004 21:38									#11
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

debeest, I think right-clicking is OK. I only don't look at continent number if in the black area.

	06-03-2004 23:40									#12
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quote: Originally posted by rjmatsleepers My comment was intended to be robust rather than rude. If I offended you then I apologise. My personal choice continues to be not using black clicking or hut finder or similar aids. RJM at Sleeper's

Apology cheerfully accepted. Friends again. It's always been my choice, too, but I recently decided to try it just to see what it's like. Seems like more hassle than it's worth, except for continent-finding, and I'll probably go back to my earlier ethics.

A

	08-03-2004 21:08									#13
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Our rules set allows black clicking.

	08-03-2004 22:15									#14
	Suffering from ads?

And would you feel that the technique I noted would be equally kosher?

	08-03-2004 22:59									#15
	Remove this text

Well if you allow black clicking you have to allow that technique.

	08-03-2004 23:44									#16
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I doubt that even though it's allowed in our games, it isn't used all that much. Small worlds with large continents are what we play. This means that usually everyone starts on Cont 1. This means that clicking to outline the coast doesn't work, unless it's an inland sea.

I usually only use it to check to see if a whale is already in use before I plop a city down. Or localizing a city that I know I'm real close to. An occasional time clicking a vast ocean to see if there are any islands that I can use to cross the ocean early. Otherwise, it's really tedious and I don't have time or the desire to do it. Most of the people that I play with state similar things.

	09-03-2004 14:48									#17
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quote: Originally posted by rah I usually only use it to check to see if a whale is already in use before I plop a city down.

Pardon my stupidity, but how can you do this?

Stu

	09-03-2004 18:21									#18
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Click on all the squares that can reach the whale. If you find no cities, then it's not being used.

	09-03-2004 18:26									#19
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quote: Originally posted by debeest When you black-click, the map centers itself on your click. But if you click on a city square, the map does not center itself. Thus, if you black-click all over the place, you can locate cities by noting which square you clicked on without the map jumping. I suppose this could be quite handy in MP, where locating your enemy early is vitally useful.

Debeest mentioned it here.

	10-03-2004 12:11									#20
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quote: Originally posted by rah Click on all the squares that can reach the whale. If you find no cities, then it's not being used.

Presumably you are assuming that if there is a city in range of a whale that city will be using it? This seems a good assumption for a human opponent, but do the AI always follow it? I seem to remember an example in the Silly Rules game where we managed to grab a whale site that was within range of an AI city - but my memory may be failing.

RJM at Sleeper's

	10-03-2004 13:25									#21
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

rjm, remember that Rah is a MP player, and I guess he now has mostly (if not only) human opponents!

	10-03-2004 13:45									#22
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The only time I think the AI does not take a whale is if there is a fish to be had.

Monk

	10-03-2004 14:04									#23
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Surely a whale can be 'in the black' for one city and not for another

	10-03-2004 17:21									#24
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The point is that if you uncover the whale but it is possible there is a city in unexplored territory that could be using it, you can use the possibility Debeest mentioned to check whether there is a city in the black.

	10-03-2004 18:30									#25
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In a special case you can use the "search city"-option - if the city bears a wonder of the world, the map will center at that city, even if you can't see it. But you know where to search it (I like bribing such cities!).

Last edited by rah on 11-03-2004 at 19:55

	10-03-2004 19:01									#26
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Yes, against the AI, food is given priority over other factors in worker selection. So Fish, Pheasants, wheat, etc, will be worked first. Humans will usually take the whale and keep it there so it can't be stolen.

But that raises a question that I've never had answered.
Two cities in range of a whale. THe player that has the whale builds a settler so the workers are redistributed and you zoom to the city as you get the settler build notification to change one worker back to the whale. If player two is in city maint at that time, can he steal the whale in those few seconds that you aren't working it?


And yes SG, I have had cases where I knew there was a city that couldn't be working a whale because it was still in the black. (Usually 2 squares off the coast before they have mapmaking) I will use those whales to build my forward bases for attacking.
But if that's not the case, I won't risk building a city if there's a chance my opponent knows it's there and is using it, unless there are other reasons for building the city there.

	10-03-2004 20:08									#27
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I guess everyone already knows you don't always need black-clicking to find new enemy cities? When a city has irrigation or farmland, the square of the city itself also displays the irrigation/farmland graphic. That also happens with AI cities, with the added bonus that you can see that city-square irrigation/farmland, even if you can't see the city.

	10-03-2004 20:30									#28
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rah - A possible answer to your lost whale quandary - admittedly not always possible - but if you put one worker to Elvis just before the Settler pops it is the elvis that is lost - not the whale.

Stu

	10-03-2004 20:34									#29
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When we play MP 2x production, irrigation usually doesn't happen till much later in the game.

	10-03-2004 21:29									#30
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Yes, I figured it wasn't nearly as useful. Even in my mediocre single-player games I can only take advantage of that in the end-game (post 1500 at least, I think).